Jack Dempsey and The Color Line...

Discussion in 'Classic Boxing Forum' started by Seamus, Aug 4, 2013.


  1. janitor

    janitor VIP Member Full Member

    71,585
    27,251
    Feb 15, 2006
    Do you mean to say that Dempsey beat the guy who dismantled Harry Wills??????????????
     
  2. Perry

    Perry Boxing Junkie Full Member

    9,343
    1,536
    Apr 26, 2015
    The Brooklyn Daily Eagle:
    The ko came in the seventh round but it was a beaten Sharkey that went to his corner at the end of round six. He lay back and closed his eyes. He no longer tried to paralyse Dempsey with a piercing look. Something terrible and unseemly lit up Dempseys face before the seventh round. Sharkey came forward no longer up and coming, no longer with flickering ambition instead he was marching to be knocked out. Sharkey appeared gone his eyes looked like pale China blue marble. The fight was out of him. Nobody in this world could take the lambasting he had on his stomach. I saw a twist of agony while his eyes rolled upwards as he took that crushing right on the stomach. the next moment his face was thrust over to one side white, helpless despairing as consciousness fled. They counted him out and carried him to his corner. He sagged back to the ropes and tears rolled down his cheeks. He was sobbing. When Dempsey entered the ring he turned his back on the vicious stare that Sharkey relies upon. When Sullivan called them to center ring Sharkey stared murder and Dempsey stared manslaughter in return.

    Dempsey..."I am glad the doctor says that he did not find any evidence of a low punch. I certainly tried to keep them up although I knew when he started to complain that I was hurting him to the body so of course I made that the target. The punches that stopped him were a right to the body and a left hook to the jaw but it was the body punch that did all the work. That shot I put him down with in the third should have kept him down. He surprised me when he got to his feet. He's tough"

    Doctor William Walker physician to the boxing commission examined Sharkey in his dressing room as a result of Sharkeys claim of foul but said that he saw no evidence of a foul having been committed.
     
  3. Perry

    Perry Boxing Junkie Full Member

    9,343
    1,536
    Apr 26, 2015
    Pittsburg Republican July 23 1927 Headline....
    "Dempsey punch fair movie film reveals"
     
  4. McGrain

    McGrain Diamond Dog Staff Member

    113,008
    48,103
    Mar 21, 2007
    Yes, i can read, and i can also use my eyes to watch the video i posted for you where we see a referee miss 20 low blows.

    Can YOU read?

    And I posted articles that show that there was general disagreement about whether or not the punches were low. Where does that leave us?

    NO I DID NOT. This is an outright lie/misreading. I stated that there was disagreement - specifically i intimated that there WERE headlines that said exactly that. Just that there were headlines which indicated the opposite, which i then produces.

    If you read and understood what was being said, you would save time for both of us.


    Can you prove this?

    Have you other examples of crowds throwing their hats because of excitement, and can you provide links to news reports of that happening?

    WHO????



    This is absolutely not true. He could drop his wrist, his elbow, launch his punch from a forwards position, or lauch the SAME punch against an opponent that is nearer.

    This is the second time i have said this to you and you fail miserably to engage with these points. Apart from...

    This miserable attempt, which shows me that your questioning of the boards experience of actually boxing is doubly dishonest.

    Anyone doubting this, simply aim for your left with your right, once extending the punch to the rear as far as possible, once extending the other way as far as possible.

    Different delivery in between is obvious, especially when it is the less than one inch difference between low and high that is in question.
    No. How can this be true? Nobody has SEEN the the final pucnh land on the beltline/trunks. How can you not see this?

    Sometimes you just have to say about a guy, "he is blind - he is biased" - that's the point being reached with you now.
     
  5. Seamus

    Seamus Proud Kulak Full Member

    61,652
    46,303
    Feb 11, 2005
    Referee O'Sullivan admits some of the blows were low...

    Oregonian July 23 1927

    "A significant feature of the developments in the aftermath of this epochal fight was the frank admission of Referee O'Sullivan that he saw Dempsey and at least one right below the belt...

    'Before the solar plexus blow was delivered and after the right landed in Sharkey's left leg, I was stepping in toward the men saying, 'Watch you punches, Jack. Then realizing here were two Jacks, I said, 'I mean you Dempsey.' Then Dempsey hit the solar plexus blow. Sharkey dropped his right hand and Dempsey hit him a left on the jaw."

    Game. Set. Match.
     
  6. Perry

    Perry Boxing Junkie Full Member

    9,343
    1,536
    Apr 26, 2015
    An another interesting point is all the accounts of the fight say Shaarkey slipped at the bell ending round three. Dempseys states he knocked Sharkey down and was surprised when he got up. Looks to me he hits Sharkey with a solid left hook to the liver and Sharkey doubles over to the canvas.
     
  7. Seamus

    Seamus Proud Kulak Full Member

    61,652
    46,303
    Feb 11, 2005
    Sharkey was winning the battles. Dempsey was winning the war.

    Still, he hit the gob low.
     
  8. Berlenbach

    Berlenbach Boxing Addict Full Member

    3,191
    1,252
    Sep 27, 2011
    Now They're Squabbling Over the Fight Films

    New York (AP) -- Jack Dempsey's comeback Thursday developed one of the most hectic controversies in heavyweight ring history, with a bitter debate swirling around the question of whether the former champ fouled Jack Sharkey before knocking out the Boston sailor in the seventh round of their battle Thursday night.

    The dispute raged among newspaper men, officials and fighters with as fierce intensity as the battle within the ring last night. Instead of being finished, the fight, it seemed, had just begun. After a day of heated post mortem examinations, in which slow motion pictures and a broadside of opinions were brought to bear, the issue was no nearer settlement than when yells of protest came from Sharkey's corner at the finish of the bout in the Yankee stadium.

    The motion pictures, it has been felt, would be a final arbiter, but three showings before a group of experts left opinion as widely divided as it was at ringside. To a majority, perhaps, it seemed that Dempsey landed two or three dangerously low rights to the body just before connecting with the left hook to the jaw that toppled the former sailor. These wallops appeared to be low but not foul, in the opinion of Tex Rickard as well as of many other observers.

    Nearly as many more, however, chief among them Johnny Buckley, Sharkey's manager, insisted that the pictures proved Sharkey had been fouled at least twice and that Dempsey should have been disqualified.

    The Milwaukee Journal, July 23, 1927
     
  9. Perry

    Perry Boxing Junkie Full Member

    9,343
    1,536
    Apr 26, 2015
    Means nothing as no one is disputing low blows were thrown. The ref stated he warned Dempsey AND Sharkey twice for low blows. The question is whether the last three blows were low. The ref was adamant that these last blows were not low.

    Read the accounts of the end of the fight the crowd let out an ovation as to the the suddenness of victory by Dempsey NOT disproval over low blows.
     
  10. Perry

    Perry Boxing Junkie Full Member

    9,343
    1,536
    Apr 26, 2015
    To the MAJORITY at ringside it appeared to be a fair blow. The crowd entertained no doubt as to the fairness of Dempseys victory. "
    The Republican Journal.

    Note the above..."THE CROWD ENTERTAINED NO DOUBT AS TO THE FAIRNESS OF DEMPSEYS VICTORY".

    Let's see that again".........."THE CROWD ENTERTAINED NO DOUBT AS TO THE FAIRNESS OF DEMPSEYS VICTORY"
     
  11. Seamus

    Seamus Proud Kulak Full Member

    61,652
    46,303
    Feb 11, 2005
    If you read closely, he is saying that at least one of the last three blows was low. I can quote more of the article if you please. His "out" was that he didn't consider the blow to be debilitating.

    Game. Set. Match.
     
  12. Perry

    Perry Boxing Junkie Full Member

    9,343
    1,536
    Apr 26, 2015
    The ref who stated he saw the final punch stated adamantly that it was NOT LOW. Add to this you do not see Dempsey dip his shoulder or arm. The ref has final verdict over the decision that no foul was committed that ended the bout.
     
  13. McGrain

    McGrain Diamond Dog Staff Member

    113,008
    48,103
    Mar 21, 2007
    Can you prove this?

    It seems in direct contradiction to your earlier statement that people can read "a variety of opinions" on the low blow from those in the stadium but that then they could read the real opinions of those seeing the films.

    This, seems to me to be untrue, and now, you seem to be changing your story.

    Have you PROVED this? Not as in reproduced here as many reports that support your position as many times as allowed, have you compared disagreeing reports, counted them, and taken account of what they report?

    Have you?
     
  14. Perry

    Perry Boxing Junkie Full Member

    9,343
    1,536
    Apr 26, 2015
    No he is NOT saying that. If you watch the film you will see that a right hand of DEMPSEYS hit Sharkey in the leg but that's way before the final three right hands. A different punch sequence. The ref is obviously not referring to the final three blows.
     
  15. Perry

    Perry Boxing Junkie Full Member

    9,343
    1,536
    Apr 26, 2015
    How dishonest.

    I am posting newspaper accounts. Multiple that point to the same conclusion.
    You say they don't exist or that there was no question that the majority felt Dempsey fouled Sharkey. MANY accounts of the ko tell a completely different tale.

    You think the crowd was in an uproar over low blows.... UNTRUE. They gave viciousness of the KO and Dempsey a resounding ovation. I read this ovation shook the building.