Jack Dempsey and The Color Line...

Discussion in 'Classic Boxing Forum' started by Seamus, Aug 4, 2013.


  1. Perry

    Perry Boxing Junkie Full Member

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    There was a poll of boxing fans that was published the day of Grebs bout with Gibbons in early 1922. The question was who did they want to see Dempseys fight next. Grebs name was not anywhere on the list. Willard, Wills, Gibbons, Brennan. YES but not Greb.
     
  2. Dubblechin

    Dubblechin Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

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    So go ahead and finish the other half.

    Please tell me the years they stopped being "contenders" and who replaced each in their top contender spot.

    I'd love to know your answer.
     
  3. Perry

    Perry Boxing Junkie Full Member

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  4. mcvey

    mcvey Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

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    Sure.Jeannette stopped being a contender in September 1917 when he couldn't beat1-3-0 Gabe Gulart. Langford when he lost twice to Dempsey's sparring partner15-12-0 Bill Tate in September 1920,then followed it up the same year by losing to 12-7-7 Lee Anderson and16-7-4 Jack Thompson.
    McVey in September 1918 when he drew with 3-13-1 Jack Livingstone and lost to 3-12-6 Pinky Lewis and then reinforced it by being chucked out in 2 fights in 1920 for not giving of his best. You are digging yourself a very deep hole here , best stop now.
     
  5. Berlenbach

    Berlenbach Boxing Addict Full Member

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    You don't reach top contender status and hold it forever more. That's a bizarre argument. Who was the last top fighter that Jeannette actually beat? His last win over Langford was in 1915. He was KO'd by Langford in 1916 and lost on points in 1917. His last win over McVea was back in 1909. He never managed to beat Wills at all, and lost to him in 1919. He lost to Kid Norfolk twice in 1918. What exactly was he doing to demonstrate that he was among the top dogs in the division? Beating Bartley Madden, Tom Cowler and Clay Turner?
     
  6. Dubblechin

    Dubblechin Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

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    I'm digging myself into a hole? You're just reading boxrec. You don't know what you're talking about at all.

    Did Gabe Gulart replace them? $50 says the first time you heard of Gabe Gulart was when you typed his name two minutes ago.

    When you actually know the answer of when they stopped being the top contenders and you can give me the names of those who replaced them, feel free to let me know.

    But don't bother with making nonsense posts. :hi:
     
  7. mcvey

    mcvey Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

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    The fact that Gulart was a complete nobody reinforces my argument and blows yours out of the water.
    You're not strong on logical thought are you?

    You believe what you want to ,you have a closed mind and it's a complete waste of time replying to you.

    I'm regretting giving you the benefit of the doubt.
    There is no longer any doubt, sayonara.
     
  8. Dubblechin

    Dubblechin Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

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    He fought an exhibition the MORNING AFTER a fight with Sam Langford, with a broken hand. Please do a second of research before posting nonsense.

    You're not adding anything at all to the discussion.
     
  9. mcvey

    mcvey Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

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    Jeannette retired 4 months after Dempsey won the title .What does that tell you about his contendership status?:patsch
     
  10. Dubblechin

    Dubblechin Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

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    That's not my argument.

    Joe Jeanette wasn't the BEST contender when Dempsey won the title - Wills was. But Jeanette was a deserving and a legit contender.

    He fought Wills three times and only lost to him once. He fought Sam McVea a half dozen times, he fought Jack Johnson a half a dozen times in non-title fights, he fought Sam Langford a DOZEN times.

    He was the Colored Heavyweight Champion the year Willard won the World title.

    He beat the white boxers all the other white boxers beat. (Arthur Pelkey, Bartley Madden, etc.)

    He beat guys who fought for the world title (Battling Jim Johnson, Georges Carpentier)

    But the year you don't see a fight on Jeanette's calendar, you decide he must've been shot - even though he went 5-1 in 1919 and the only guy to beat him that last year was the top contender Wills - who would've arguably beaten everyone in the sport that year. (And that's the only time Wills beat him in three fights.)

    You don't get to be a top contender forever. But he still was for the first year or two of Dempsey's reign.

    And he was the OLDEST. I guess you're focusing on him because you don't have any responses about the other guys I mentioned.
     
  11. McGrain

    McGrain Diamond Dog Staff Member

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    Wasn't there a thing where Dempsey turned up to box in a charity match, got ambushed a bit by Jenette and refused to box him? I remember something like that.

    Any newspaper articles from the era discussing his as a possible challenger for Dempsey?
     
  12. mcvey

    mcvey Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

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    During the time scale of Dempsey's title reign the underlined is palpable nonsense.
    Jeannette received a debatable decision over a young Carpentier in1914 ,5 years before Dempsey won the title,and 7 years before Carpentier fought Dempsey.
    Jeannette did not fight:
    Brennan
    Gibbons
    Greb
    Fulton
    Willard
    Miske
    Renault
    The only time he fought Wills during Dempsey's time at the top he lost, in fact he never beat Wills.
    The last time Jeannette beat Jim Johnson was in1914, 5 years before Dempsey won the title,and Jeannette lost to him in1915.

    Pelkey was an irrelevance during Dempsey's reign.

    In1918 Dempsey ko'd him in 60 seconds.

    You are a joke.
     
  13. Dubblechin

    Dubblechin Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

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  14. Berlenbach

    Berlenbach Boxing Addict Full Member

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    We're talking about 1919. Jeanette's last fight against Johnson was in 1906! His last win over McVea was in 1909. He lost most of his dozen fights against Langford, including the last two, which is most relevant to our discussion. You don't credit fighters for stuff they were doing a DECADE or more earlier. They don't get credit merely for fighting top contenders if they lose to them. He lost the colored world title when he was KO'd by Langford in 1916 and never regained it.

    From 1916 through 1919 Jeannette was 0-5 against Wills, Langford and Norfolk, a better indication of his current level than going 5-1 against Turner and co. His win over Carpentier was in 1914, seven years before Carp faced Dempsey. And I thought there was no credit for beating undeserving challengers anyway? You also haven't explained why Jeannette gets credit for beating Madden, who had just been thrashed by Greb, who you maintain was never a legit heavyweight contender.

    As for McVea and Langford, go look at who they were beating and losing to and tell me why they were still top contenders. Langford was demonstrably better than than the other two and Wills was demonstrably better than Langford. Langford was KO'd by Fred Fulton in 1917. The following year he was losing to people like Clark, Meehan and Fulton again. By 1920 he was losing to Jack Thompson and Lee Anderson. He was out of contention and so were they.
     
  15. Seamus

    Seamus Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

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    There was a poll last week that said Donald Trump would be the best choice for president of the US. The ill-informed are no pole by which to set your compass.

    And where was the great Firpo?