No one is saying that Greb would have been a comprehensive favorite over Dempsey, only that he was the second most qualified challenger... Here's a real knee-slapper from the NYT, 8/2/25... Jack Dempsey sat down hard today on Floyd Fitzsimmon's proposals for immediate signing of papers for a bout between the champion and Harry Greb at Michigan City, Ind., next September, when he announced that the one fight he wanted was with Harry Wills and that he would do nothing in any other direction... So, apparently, Greb was still being f*cked about with as a title challenger even at the tail end of his career... I stand corrected on that fact. But, playing the two best contenders of his title reign, neither of whom he would face, against each other is true high comedy by the Manassa Slacker!
Oh, by the way, in Greb's bout with the "shot" Gunboat Smith, Smith was the betting favorite apparently. The South Bend Tribune called Greb the trialhorse. Always helps to put things in perspective of the times.
Again, I want to see a ranking of the best contenders to the throne from 1919-1925 (why not be comprehensive?) based upon their accomplishments in the ring. Please list their greatest victories supporting their challenge. That's all I ask.
New-York tribune., January 30, 1922, Page 9, Image 9 Dempsey Soon to Hit European War Trail JACK DEMPSEY, heavyweight champion of the world, is soon to invade the verdant pastures of Europe. His manager Jack Kearns. who is in New York on business, admits that the kingpin of all pugilists may take to the briny before another month unless in the mean time something alluring in the nature of a match in this country presents itself. Nobody conversant with the boxing situation seriously regards the present activities of William A. Brady toward a Jack Dempsey-Harry Wills battle. To put it mildly, Mr. Brady seems playing it safe. He offers a purse of $200,000 of which $150,000 would go to Dempsey. For this sum he asks the champion to meet a far more formidable foeman than Georges Carpentier. Brady's price is just half the "easy money" the mankiller earned in last July's exercises at Boyle's Thirty Acres. If a Dempsey-Wills fight is worth anything at all if, indeed, it could be held anywhere in the United States for obvious reasons it would be worth quite as much as the Dempsey-Carpentier battle of last summer.True, it would lack the international glamour and the sentiment and sympathy universally expressed for the debonair Carpentier because of his grand war record. Still on the face of it such a match would necessarily frame up as a real contest and not as a foregone conclusion. Dempsey is a fighting champion. He is not afraid of Wills. Indeed, regrets that Wills appears to have gone back, judged by recent battles. But Dempsey is also a good business man. He is looking to the future quite as much as to the immediate present. Mixed matches have been unpopular in the United States ever since Jeffries went down before Lil Arthur Johnson. Reformers are hounding the game. Such a heavyweight prizefight undoubtedly would sound the knell of the game. Most of the states that permit boxing frown on mixed bouts.There are a lot of soft ones waiting over yonder. Carpentier's easy victory over the Australian, Cook. has re-established him throughout Europe in all his oldtime favor. And there is concert hall work or vaudeville unlimited.Europe calls Dempsey. He cannot be censured for bending an attentive ear
Dempsey passed on Sam Langford too. Greb deserved a shot vs Dempsey and was talk about in terms of getting one.
Look at Smith's current form and tell me he wasn't shot when he fought Greb. The South Bend Tribune!!!! Oh MY Golly Gosh! Look, you got f*cked move on.
Don't want to respond to my post that exposed you once again as a CRETIN? Willie Meehan deserved a title shot? Dempsey won the title on July 4th 1919. from that time until the end of 1919 Meehan had 3 fights winning one, against a third rater 1920 He had 7 fights ,winning 1 over a third rater . 1921 He had 3 fights losing all of them. 1922 He had 6 fights winning 1 ,against a debutee. 1923 He had 5 fights winning 2 over 3rd raters. 1924 he had one fight a no contest,both were thrown out for not trying. Retired until 1926. When he had 1 fight and was stopped. Meehan deserved a title shot? You absolute ****ER! atsch
An intriguing question, but there are a few pointers. Ring Magazine inaugurated its first rankings in 1924: Heavyweights 1. Jack Dempsey, Champion 2. Harry Wills 3. Tommy Gibbons 4. Charley Weinert 5. Quintin Romero Rojas 6. Jack Renault 7. Luis Angel Firpo 8. George Godfrey 9. Jim Maloney 10. Erminio Spalla Harry wills is clearly entrenched at #1, but Greb is not ranked either at heavyweight or light heavyweight. Tommy Gibbons is second only to Wills, and Gene Tunney is not yet ranked at heavyweight. So what if these rankings went back further? I would suggest that while Greb was a contender for Jack Dempsey at some points, he was a much more intermittent one than Harry Wills, due to the fact that he fought across three weight classes. Firpo still holds the #7 ranking after a couple of key losses, so it is reasonable to infer that he would have been higher when he fought Dempsey. Gibbons was a strong choice of challenger when Dempsey fought him. Wills would likely have lost his #1 ranking after his series with Big Bill Tate, and regained it at some point. It is fun to speculate.
Guys why argue about something that didn't happened, should've happened or could've happened. it didn't happen for whatever reason. read the newspaper reports of the times of people who actually witnessed and wrote about these things. I did a simple search and came up with various columns that I posted that indicated what the situation was as people of the time saw it. Now all these yrs later people are arguing about what should have been and denigrating someone's memory, cos he didn't do what these posters believe he should have done. Dempsey is a name that will live forever and the only reason Harry Wills is remembered and mentioned is that he wasn't able to fight Dempsey. Harry Wills, wasn't all that, even the people of the time didn't think he was a monster, he might have been the best of a poor lot at best. Dempsey being the racist and afraid of Wills that posters here would have us believe argue about what should have been. I posted some articles of the times that should give you some insight into the thinking of the time. People should realize that like it or not Dempsey was great for boxing. From that day to the present the colorline and politics prevail, the colorline has almost always been green not black. Today think of Rigondeaux, nobody wants to fight him white or black are the guys 70+ yrs from now gonna be down on the current crop and deeming them racist? The politics of the times and today play a part in making fights happen or not happening. Politics is any outside influences that prevent a fight fom happening, as in Dempsey's not fighting Wills, being due to what Johnson did or did not do during his reign, the race riots. The fighters themselves would have fought if they signed to fight, so don't blame them. What do you call it when black ATG's do it and limit their activities to fighting white guys for the most part and not fighting tougher black guys of their era? About Harry Greb yes he might have made Dempsey look foolish but even as a prime Gene Tunney found out Dempsey could hurt you at any time. Another thing ask yourself this, would you have wanted Greb as the heavyweight champion to what end? Maybe the folks back then thought about it and decided fergetaboutit, Dempsey is better for us(the promotors). Politics rearing it's ugly head again. Please give Dempsey his due and blame the real cause, politics. This is my 2 or 3 cents worth.
Not everybody will understand this, but I draw inspiration from Jack Dempsey, for my pursuits in endurance sports. We have all heard the story of how he fought through the fog to win, against Smith and Firpo, and believed that he had lost the fight afterwards. One of my dreams had been to run the Ultra Trail du Mount Blanc. For those not familiar with it, it is a 105 mile footrace around Mount Blanc, in which you have to climb and descend 9600 metres. In addition to covering 100 miles, the climb is like ascending from sea level to the summit of Mount Everest, and down again. My race went pretty well until about mile 80, then I got hit by a bad case of altitude sickness, and I was coughing up lungful’s of snot. By mile 90 I didn’t even know that I was in a race, and I was slumped up against a rock wondering why all these people were passing me. I came to in the medical tent, on a saline drip wondering how I got there. I assumed that I had failed to finish the race, and that I was going home in ignominy. I was shocked when the medics told me that I had actually finished the race. Apparently I crossed the finish line, and collapsed. That was my Jack Dempsey moment. Like him or hate him, he is relevant today.
Excellent post D. BUT, how lucid and valid your reasoning is it will not alter the thinkings of some posters here MAINLY on ESB who love to lambast Jack Dempsey for this simple reason. THEY SOMEHOW FEEL NOBLER to tear down Dempsey and portray him as a "racist" for not fighting a Harry Wills even though they did sign for a bout which was canceled through no fault of Dempsey or Wills....They conveniently disregard this fact as if it never happened. Doesn't fit their narrative, so screw the truth.There were also legitimate fears prevailing in America of a possible recurrence of the race riots that followed the Jeffries/Johnson Heavyweight title fight in Reno a decade before in which many people died in America...Most promoters feared if they sponsored a HWt bout between a white and black fighter they would be blamed for putting money greed ahead of public safety and thus stayed away from this problem.Did Harry Wills deserve a title shot ? Hell yes, never really blamed Jack Dempsey personally. We are ALL products of our times, and until I joined ESB I seldom read such vitriol against a decent man Jack Dempsey who was beloved by millions in his long life...Joe Louis my favorite heavyweight COULD have given a great money shot to some deserving black fighters were he of mind such as Lee Q Murray, Elmer Ray, Lem Franklin,Harry Bobo, Turkey Thompson etc. all who were better than some of his less deserving white opponents, no doubt. But his braintrust felt the need to avoid the risk...But Louis could have but didn't...Boxing was and is a business, but not when it relates to Jack Dempsey it appears... To shame...
Dempsey passed on Langford in 1917.If Dempsey had defended against Langford during his championship reign it would have been a mismatch.
