Jack Dempsey belongs in the top 5 h2h at HW

I would agree with you if it were 1956 instead of 2016.

 

I agree with the perfect text book left hook apart from the 'ultra short' comment and the fact that Dempsey threw this perfect hook.
The left hook that Joe Louis used to knock Galento off his feet was torqued perfectly. He adjusted his feet so when his hook landes it was still accelerating as it lamded

 

I'm a huge fan of Dempsey he's certainly one of my top 3 heavyweights of all time but l just don't see him beating Ali, Holmes, Foreman, Lewis or Bowe. Not sure if he'd beat Holyfield or Louis either. But that doesn't change my view of them. He singlehandily changed the sport and was bigger than Babe Ruth.

 

The Dempsey hook was akin to the Louis hook just more powerful.

 

I believe that the best version of Dempsey loses to the best versions of:

Ali
Louis
Liston
Foreman
Vitali Klitschko
Lewis
Tyson
Marciano
Holmes
Frazier



and perhaps others (Johnson, Bowe, Holyfield, Wlad, Wills...)

So to answer the thread question, No.

 

There have not been that many greater than Jack Dempsey. He was MR BOXING. So yes. Dempsey is top five. Absolutely.

Those that don't believe so are hung up on size and artificial "modern advances" that really wont ever eclipse true greatness. Dempsey was "Jack the giant killer" anyway.

Boxing is punching. It's not bodybuilding.

 

Dempsey was great, but top 5 h2h?

Never. I don't see even a Povetkin losing to some of the guys that Dempsey lost to.

If the question is COULD he beat some of the HW greats then the answer is yes, he probably stands a chance against pretty much everybody simply due to his savage and fast punching. But I wouldn't bet on him against Lewis, Ali, Foreman, Vitali, Wlad, Holmes, Tyson etc ...

 

I'm not even sure how a "top 5 h2h" is calculated.
Can someone show me their calculations.

 

Good point.

I think what they're saying is more or less "there are only 4 men or less in history that could be favoured over Dempsey in the ring".

There are no calculations, only opinions.

 

:good Head-to-head opinions are fun and even valid when we're talking about fantasy match-ups.

But the "h2h" rankings don't make as much sense to me.
Such is the nature of boxing that any given fighter A can lose to fighter B, yet beat fighter C who already beat fighter B !
etc. etc.
Making the whole exercise way too complicated.

 

I do think Dempsey was a head-to-head monster though, certainly in a pound-for-pound sense.
I don't think he's out of place in a top 5 at heavyweight, whether people want to call it a "h2h top 5" or something else.
Perhaps his reputation is/was bolstered up or protected by his inactivity and failure to match his main rival. On the other hand, maybe he suffers from that.

 

Here's my problem though: which version of Dempsey (or any given boxer) was the "h2h monster"?

The obvious retort is, "the best version".

Leading to the conclusion that ...

... Buster Douglas is a h2h monster and should be right up there in the top 5 based on his performance against Tyson? :hey

H2H prime matchups are greatly skewed towards fighters that had a short, phenomenal run, as opposed to fighters that were consistent throughout their careers.

For my money Dempsey is indeed a pound for pound monster, but he would fare badly when introduced to the XL sized HW with skills. IMHO, of course

 

Well, exactly. But before you have actually done the round robin and tallied the points, you're just "imagining" or "guessing".

Also, you have to start from a prejudiced position to decide who are "all the HW greats" to warrant inclusion in the round robin.
So even after you've done the round robin and tallied the points, you should be second-guessing yourself wondering if some of the guys you left out would have performed well if you'd thrown them in to begin with !

I suppose the answer to that would be to use a massive sample of notable HWs, like "a top 50" or something, so you won't exactly worry about anyone you left out because the bottom rungs of the final standings would be of little interest.
Now, there's some work to done there. :good

 

Agreed rocky would point his left shoulder at Dempsey lean to the right and come forward. On the other hand rocky would take a lot of body shots for Dempsey.