Jack Dempsey fights on film

The article, its in the mag, doubt its online and theres a thread in the British Forum saying that we cant post links to Boxing News web pages:-(

Its titled 'Black Jack' and details his darker side:scaredas:

 

sounds very interesting, really want to read it now...

 

yup, i notice how he is slightly slower, not as mch bounce in his footwork either, shame his prime was so short lived, as Cus D'mato rightly said "speed kills." jack without the killer speed could not be the same but even so he managed to drop tunney with a perfectly timed cross, was fast against Firpo and there are other examples as well where he showed he could do a lot even without speed.

 

I dont know if i necessarilly agree that three years isnt typical of a fighters peak. Where there is a single dominant champion, a fighter is usually struggling for money and success. He usually has an earlier learning experience for a few years, then he puts together his title winning form, then he gets the big dollars and his peak form will slow down until he reaches a level where someone else catches up eventually due to inactivity (and lack of desire), then they go on second careers where they never reach their previous heights though sometimes they are so good, they still get back the title or in the picture before eventually retiring or losing it all together.

Dempsey had the learning period, started his prime , reached the top, then stayed their a while while not being at previous levels before being beaten. When beaten, despite not being at his best, he still beat the second best figther of the time, Sharkey but could not regain previos form. If he had fought on, he would have still been a major player if he wanted to, but he didnt.

The exact same thing happened to Tyson he peaked at Spinks then slowly eroded to Douglas, then he went again, but never reached previous heights but was still good enough to be a majore player. Eventually he lost it, rather than retiring like Jack. No more than three or so years.

Ali is another. He peaked with Liston and just at the break once he slowed down, he lost it and never regained it. He eventually lost to Frazier and while he was good enough to eventually climb to the top again, he relied on stylistic advantages and was given hard fights by great fighters but fighters who werent in his class in his prime. (and by the way, i think that Burt is too hard on Ali. Like Dempsey, Ali in his prime was something else and like Dempsey post exile Ali isnt in the same class as pre exile Ali). Prime Ali was only 3 years or so.

Jack Johnson did the same. Learning period, then he ripped through the main challengers, until Jeffries and maybe a touch after. After peaking here, he lost focus and was never the same. Prime Johnson only lasted about 3 years or so also even though it took them 7 years to catch him.

Prime Liston ripped through the challengers but lost focus after conquering patterson He was only their three years or so. In fact, the only guy that really seemed to maintain his prime for longer than 3 years (give or take a year or two) that i can think of was Joe Louis whose peak form maintainal was simply astonishing, though even Joe was pretty much nowhere near the fighter he used to be, after he had slowed down during his time in the army.

I dont think Dempsey's prime is much shorter than any other great champions.

 

a lot of good examples, maybe HW dont have a very long peak, but hteres loads of other fighters out there who had a very long prime period, Sugar Ray Robinson is considered to have his prime within 7 years. (1943-1948 Louis also was vey different if youre talking about heavyweights, surely his prime lasted a lot longer than 3 years.

 

I don't think i am "hard" on Ali, because I honestly feel that a peak Jack Dempsey or Joe Louis,circa Max Baer, would have overwhelmed Ali at his
best..I saw Ali/Frazier MSG, and admire his courage, but I go along with the unponderous punchers like Dempsey, Louis,Robinson,each who combined great hand speed, and two handed puncing power...Their speed
would nullify Ali's advantage over the bigger but slower modern dreadnoughts...No, i am not hard on Ali, but true to my convictions....

 

But surely, you of all people, dont equate the Ali that met Frazier with prime Ali.

 

Dempsey would not beat Ali. Louis would. Not Dempsey, imo.

 

When was the "prime" Ali ? The Ali of Liston,Henry Cooper, Doug Jones,1963-1965 ? Who knows what was in Listons mind in their two fights in 1964-65,and who knows Liston's true age..Sonny was listed being boirn in 1932,but he might have been years older than 33 years of age.In 1963 Ali was dropped and hurt by Henry Cooper,and had his hands full with doug Jones..If these two Cooper and Jones could give Ali such trouble, think what Joe Louis ,Lithe and powerful would have done with Ali.
So the prime Ali was 1963-1966 faster, but not as strong as the more mature Ali of Frazier vintage of 1970 and on...Either Ali I believe would have been beaten by both Dempsey and Joe Louis at their peaks...Ali had less trouble with the slower and heavier guys than the smaller, more mobile heavies I believe...

 

1964-1967. Those 3 years. He matured alot from 1963 to 1964.

 

ive heard people say ali was in his prime when he was in jail, if that is true weve never seen him in his prime...

 

Dempsey's title match with Billy Miske almost certainly exists on film as well. Rareboxing had uploaded an ultra brief clip of the fight, that showed them walking to the center of the ring after the bell had rung, and then the footage ends. Surely the fight itself must be out there somewhere as well.