Jack Dempsey openly stated he would not fight black challengers

I didn't say Morris and Firpo weren't powerful punchers. What I said was that Morris might not have been the puncher Savold was. Firpo I specifically put in a different class.

Morris KO'd 41 men in 83 fights for a percentage of 49%. Savold KO'd 72 men in 143 fights for a percentage of 50%. (all stats off box rec--Morris career record was 57 wins, 22 losses, and 4 draws with 41 KO's). I think more accurate than what I originally posted is that there is no reason to consider Morris the bigger puncher. Savold KO'd 17 men who appear in the Ring or NBA ratings over a 14 year period.

Firpo KO'd 26 men in 37 fights for a percentage of 70%. He could certainly punch and I never said he couldn't, but his record is heavily padded. Only 18 of his 37 opponents had winning records. I think it fair to consider only about 10 of his fights to be against name opposition and with them he only about broke even. Hard to compare him to someone like Moore who was facing top opposition for around 25 years.

Here is an example of why I think KO's to wins is not the way to judge:

Anton Raadik--36 wins, 24 losses, 1 draw, with 25 KO's.

Sugar Ray Robinson--174 wins, 19 losses, 6 draws, 2 ND, with 109 KO's.

Raadik has a KO to win percentage of 69%. Robinson has a KO to win percentage of 63%. Raadik has a KO to fight percentage of 41%. Robinson has a KO to fight percentage of 54%.

Whom do you think was the more dangerous puncher between Robinson and Raadik? I judge obviously Robinson, but this doesn't mean Raadik wasn't a dangerous puncher. He just wasn't as dangerous as Robinson, who could also box and was a complete fighter.

The bottom line to being a dangerous puncher is actually being able to hit your opponent. So boxing ability, hand speed, ability to use combinations, two handed power, stamina to keep throwing punches, accuracy, etc. are all part of the total package.

I am not into using a statistical measurement which advantages limited sluggers.

 

I included newspaper decisions in my percentage which gives Savold 72 knockouts out of 155 fights,

I agree there have certainly been "dangerous" punchers who weren't as powerful as other guys. Joe Louis vs. Max Baer is one, Baer certainly hit harder, but Louis had the blistering combos, short punches, and other such techniques that made his fists more dangerous overall. I was only talking about punching power, not overall punching ability. I think we simply had a misunderstanding

 

KO percentages is based on total fights, not merely on the KOs you got in wins. How on earth would that give you an accurate percentage of their KOs that way?? Talk about trying to pad a guys statistics.

 

All I can say is, you have your way, and everybody else has a different way.

 

"Baer certainly hit harder"

I don't think that is certain.

"Louis had the blistering combos, short punches, and other techniques that made his fists more dangerous overall"

I agree. And my take is the same is true for the most part for Walcott, Charles, and Moore versus Dempsey's opposition. The guys who could box (Tunney perhaps aside) were not big punchers, and the guys who were arguably big punchers lacked technique.

"more dangerous overall"

I think this the key measurement.

 

He said it or Kearns said it. I'm asking because out of all the Dempsey books I've read and I've read most I never saw this.

 

Dempsey said it. He was quoted two days after the Willard fight saying this and then reiterated it while on the train returning west from Toledo.

 

Dempsey, Tunney Jeffries, and Willard were all racist garbage.

 

That disappoints me

 

Nice new topic to discuss.

Will give my two cents later.

 

Racism is more than what's in your heart, guys.. it's the things you do too. Doesn't really matter if a school official or the guy working a lunch counter were really racist in their heat of hearts when they were refusing to serve Black people. It's still clearly and obviously racism. Same as with Dempsey and not fighting Black challengers.

 

Virtue signalers aside, Dempsey not defending the title against black fighters was largely decided by promoters and officials and was done to avoid the types of race riots done while Jack Johnson was champion. Hardly makes Dempsey a racist, especially when he later attempted to sign and fight Harry Wills which was again shut down first by Rickard, the second time by Wills team voiding the contract.

 

What's a virtue signaler, someone who isn't a bad person and that comes through in how they discuss things?

 

Hope she sees this bro

 

Correct.