Jack Dempsey openly stated he would not fight black challengers

What you seem to keep ignoring is that Kidney disease goes through stages and during those stages there are ebbs and flows to how ill a person is. Imagine it as a car sputtering along. It might drive 10 miles purring like a kitten and then all of a sudden start sputtering and choking. It was well established why Miske retired from the sport in 1919. It was also well documented that he took at least one more forced layoff in 1923. In both instances he was able to comeback despite having gone through periods of being bed ridden. Those facts are easily established by anyone willing to research them.

Beyond that was Miske's record after 1919 really great? You say he went on this "tear" but by and large the men he fought were fairly average except for Gibbons who dominated him in both of those contests only to lose one on a highly disputed foul that most felt robbed Gibbons of a deserved win. Who else was there? Willie Meehan who was shot by then? Charlie Weinert who was coming off a brutal one sided loss to middleweight Greb in a bout in which he was dropped and battered for 12 rounds? Renault who was still years away from being a contender? Fulton in a fight that was so suspect it caused a riot and was thought to be a fix? Brennan was the best "name" win on his record during this period but look at Brennan's record during this period. From the time he lost to Dempsey Brennan faced nobody, sitting on the shelf hoping for a rematch. The second Brennan bout was thought to be fixed and so controversial Brennan wasnt paid for the fight and was banned. Nevermind that he was coming off a brutal loss to Firpo in which he suffered brain damage and shouldnt have been fighting at all. Miske wasnt beating anyone of note at this point. He certainly wasnt beating anyone that stands out makes one think "wow this guy was a top contender." No, the reason why Miske's record post 1920 is impressive is because he was gravely ill. Take away that simple fact and his record during that period is that of an also ran. Do you see any Tunney's, Firpo's, Wills, Norfolk's, Greb's, Delaney's, Berlenbach's, Loughran's, Siki's. No. He was beating the guys everybody else was beating to stay busy that you think makes his record impressive. And frankly, all of this besides the point because what Miske did AFTER he lost to Dempsey has no baring on why he got a title shot or whether he deserved it. At the time he signed for the title shot, the day after Wills knocked Fulton out of contention (the same Fulton that you seem to think Miske beating in a controversial fight two years later makes him a worthy contender) in a title eliminator Miske had won one fight against a total nobody who had been stopped in five of his previous seven bouts in the previous year and prior to that had 0-2-2. Hell no he didnt deserve that title shot. Not only did he not deserve it over Wills but show me what he had done that was more impressive at any weight than Greb in the runup to September 1920! You cant!

Miske was never a great fighter. He was good but he wasnt anything special and most of the press, including in his hometown agreed with this. What made him interesting and has kept his name alive was his story and how he continued to fight despite his illness. You would rob him of that by having us believe he wasnt really that sick. I guess, what, his doctors were wrong and he didnt really have kidney disease? Or do you think his kidney disease developed over night and killed him the next day? Or did he get hit by an invisible bus? There is no logic to your argument. "We are all dying" Yeah, go talk to someone with kidney disease and tell me how its no big deal and doesnt effect every aspect of their life, and thats with 21st century dialysis. Jesus, what a tool.

You can sit here and act like Dempsey was being charitable and that should be lauded but how many passes do we have to give Dempsey before we start to admit that the guy wasnt exactly interested in putting his title at risk. Miske was a charity case. Brennan was a gimme. Carpentier was too much money to turn down. TWO YEARS OFF and then Gibbons who had lost his title eliminator. Three months later Firpo who was brought over and built up as foil for Dempsey leap frogging every contender. THREE YEARS OFF. Then Tunney who Dempsey signed to fight after Rickard convinced him it would be an easy defense. Ive said it before and Ill say it again. When you have to come up with so many excuses for you hero it might be time to admit that where there is smoke theres fire.

 

I didn't say Dempsey was being charitable, that is the take of many boxing scribes.
I'm not here to defend Dempsey's title reign or to make excuses for him, I'm just trying to get a handle on the how badly Miske's condition affected him , as to my understanding of Miske's condition ,or as you put it,my lack of understanding,I refer you Dr Compton to my earlier post in which said,".No one has claimed tp be a medical expert on nephrology all I said was I am familiar with the disease, a friend died of it,and we know the condition ebbs and flows in its victims.".
Note the line"ebbs and flows". Two of my Cousins also died of kidney failure.
Dempsey's defences are not the the subject of the debate between us ,what we are trying to assess ,[or at least I am ] is to what extent Miske's illness impacted on his fight with Dempsey for the title and also his subsequent performances? Dempsey's later defences have no relevance whatsoever to that. You have gratuitously mentioned them soley to get another vicarious knife thrust into Dempsey, as I said earlier you're hater.
It's okay,it's not a hangable offence.I can't abide Prince Naseem Hamed or Adrian Broner,but I can at least admit it.

 

If I am a hater then you are an apologist. Simple as that. If you cant admit that a man who was ordered by his doctors to retire because he had terminal illness and only unretired because he went broke was not only not at his best but more to the point not deserving of a title shot then you are simply doing damage control for a fighter you have s soft spot for. You say you arent here to debate the merits of Miske as a challenger. Fair enough, this post has been specifically about Dempseys refusal to fight black challengers and more specifically Harry Wills. If you arent trying to damage control, as you say (we both know thats a lie) and only want to debate whether Miske was ill, how ill he was and if his supposed illness impacted his performance against Dempsey then that seems like an entirely different discussion. No? Why try to change the subject? Dont like how its going for your boy? If you dont accept that Miske was ill, that the illness impacted his performances, or that the illness was the cause of his multiple early retirements and eventual death before he was 30 years old I suggest you take it up with the people who knew him best because your opinion is apparently based on fantasy and not at all related to the reality of Miskes situation. I would suggest you go back to yelling at clouds. You have a better chance of winning an argument with one of them.

 

All your BS aside you've provided not one single tangible piece of evidence that tells us how ill Miske was,or wasn't ,its all presumption on your part.Given you will always paint Dempsey in a negative light you will naturally gravitate to the opinion that Billy was at deaths door when he fought Dempsey.
My boy ? I don't have heroes, I've told you that.
I have no problem with anyone disliking a fighter ,everyone has their preferences and their dislikes,but you have made a religious crusade out of your hatred of Dempsey,it's almost as eerie as Mendoza's fixated hatred of Jack Johnson,he at least had the excuse he wasn't very bright,you are intelligent, but have a palpable character flaw ,you cannot abide any dissenting opinion , no matter how mild it may be,any differing view from your own sparks a tirade of scornful abuse from you. It's pretty sad really and so,so predictable. I think we have exhausted this now so, unless you wish to have the last comment which you are welcome to ,I suggest we drop it.Good Night Klompton.

 

Bs Lester didn't beat him it was a draw and yes Lester broke 3 of Jacks ribs but most media at the time were split up between those who say Lester won vs those who say Jack won.But of course there's no footage of the fight as it was at a Harlem club

 

“I didn’t know how to fight then, and he (Johnson) did. I think he won, and he taught me more that night than I had ever dreamed before” - Jack Dempsey