Jack Dempsey, Rocky Marciano, Bill Heinz, and Jimmy Cannon on the phantom punch

Nice find. Who here believes it was a fix...? If so explain your reasoning. I remember reading Joe say there definitely was a connecting punch ...

 

The greater question is how many cigarettes do those guys go through during the course of this roundtable.

Per the fix, I don't think it was so much fixed as Liston wanted out of the fight and perhaps out of the game entirely. According to some, he was definitely fearful of Ali's NOI contingent and perhaps of Ali himself, thinking he was crazy. Ali meanwhile does his best Jack Dempsey impersonation by avoiding any corner, let alone neutral, and circles Liston waiting for him to rise. Walcott loses control completely. Liston could have been a) legitimately dinged by temple shot which tend to scramble equilibrium, b) afraid to rise with Ali looming overhead, c) not have properly been relayed the count d) too confused with the distractions of Ali, the general mayhem and lurking NOI guards to pick up the count... I tend to believe it was a lot of B, C and D. A fix for money? No. A complete failure of running a championship fight and an old, tired fighter calling it a day? Yes.

 

great video, looks very rare.

 

Yeah Sonny figured it wasn't worth it. Foreman said in the "Facing Ali" dvd that all he cared about was the doe ray me (money). He looked like he knew he didn't make the 10 count but was surprised when the ref didn't count him out. The punch got him I think, but Sonny preferred the money over the headache.

 

There is film where the camera angle shows the punch connecting flush on the chin. Liston probably could have gotten up, but he had already been paid, his money was in the bank, and he could read the writing on the wall. The best part of the whole affair was a very pissed off George Chuvalo charging across the ring.

 

The way Liston flopped down after getting to a knee was undoubtedly playacting. I think the knockdown was genuine though, a flash knockdown or a balance thing. I don't know if he'd been told to tank it or not but his own explanation of staying down because Ali refused to go to the neutral corner is at least plausible. When you watch the film you can see Ali's feet skipping into shot just when Liston flops down again. Walcott made a complete balls of things which doesn't help. He should have told Fleischer to **** off and let the fight resume. If Ali's not in the corner then the count shouldn't count (aah aah aah) anyway.
Ali's anchor punch bull**** is laughable. He knew he didn't hit him hard or why else was he yelling "get up no'one will believe this"?
Bizarre fight and the fact is we'll never know. I don't consider it a genuine knockout in either case.

 

the whole Ali was a fraud is as ******ed as the moonwalk recorded in a studio debate. Any fan of that theory should be gifted their own 'phantom' punch in the balls!