Jack Dempsey v Bernard Hopkins

Discussion in 'Classic Boxing Forum' started by Seamus, Jan 19, 2012.


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  1. McGrain

    McGrain Diamond Dog Staff Member

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    [ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UPw-3e_pzqU[/ame]


    Definitely no harm in this, and if these things are important to you (they can certainly be important to me) a second look doesn't do any harm whatever the reason. A second look at the primary evidence. But a jab is a jab is a jab.

    Yes, I think, as in boxing, I'd have to agree that chess became "modern" (for want of a better word) at a given point, and I think post-Steinitz is as good as we'll get speaking in generalities.

    But the Tal example is interesting. What Kasparov is saying is that Tal's combination and positional play is sound by 2011 standards - that is, regardless of the relativity that is bothering you here, and independent of opening theory, Tal is the equal of modern chess players according to the technical analysis of the greatest chess mind that era has produced using technical analysis alone. In chess, this is as good as a lock.

    In boxing, the problem is more complex, as we agree, but the principals are the same.


    Yeah, fair enough.
     
    McGrain, Jan 23, 2012
    McGrain, Jan 23, 2012
    #151
  2. PowerPuncher

    PowerPuncher Loyal Member Full Member

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    In his prime he didn't fight anyone but Meehan and Miske still stood him on his head

    Dempsey = Boxing's biggest myth
     
    PowerPuncher, Jan 23, 2012
    PowerPuncher, Jan 23, 2012
    #152
  3. Nightcrawler

    Nightcrawler Boxing Addict Full Member

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    i'm critical of dempsey but still struggling to learn more about him:

    my thinking is what are his 5 best wins? how were they ranked at the time? how are they ranked all time? compare with other heavyweight champs and it gives us an idea

    while i think pp is overly critical at times, he has a point that newspaper descriptions and grandiose statements have (at times) elevated dempsey to levels that MAY not match the reality
     
    Nightcrawler, Jan 23, 2012
    Nightcrawler, Jan 23, 2012
    #153
  4. Nightcrawler

    Nightcrawler Boxing Addict Full Member

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    also, as a throw away comment, we cannot throw away his loses. meehan and tunney count, to varying degrees. i think it's unfair to discount meehan entirely for being 4-rounders, same as tunney for being past prime. they shouldn't count as much as clear, pure prime losses but they should factor in to both resume and h2h stylistic comparisons
     
    Nightcrawler, Jan 23, 2012
    Nightcrawler, Jan 23, 2012
    #154
  5. Lester1583

    Lester1583 Can you hear this? Full Member

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    Poster: klompton

    Search: Dempsey, Wills, Greb

    That will give you some critical perspective;)

    His ducking is also a very interesting issue. ;)
     
    Lester1583, Jan 23, 2012
    Lester1583, Jan 23, 2012
    #155
  6. Nightcrawler

    Nightcrawler Boxing Addict Full Member

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    :nonoshhhh we're not supposed to mention that name ...
     
    Nightcrawler, Jan 23, 2012
    Nightcrawler, Jan 23, 2012
    #156
  7. Conn

    Conn Well-Known Member banned Full Member

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    Miske didn't beat him. It seems Dempsey nullified Miske's superior boxing by being a superior fighter/puncher.

    Meehan beat him in a 4-rounder - won 3 rounds, and in the other round Dempsey had him down and in all sorts of trouble.

    maybe. maybe not. who cares?
    regardless of the merit or not of that label, there's no reason to give ol' Bernard Hopkins much chance of defeating him.

    This high rating of Hopkins' abilities in such a match up is extreme and absurd. For all his skill and cleverness, at his best he was a middleweight fighting in a rather flat-footed manner, he's no speed merchant with his feet. He's no great powerhouse for his size either. Dempsey's bound to run him out of the ring
     
    Conn, Jan 24, 2012
    Conn, Jan 24, 2012
    #157
  8. burt bienstock

    burt bienstock Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

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    Except for Power Puncher:hi:
     
    burt bienstock, Jan 24, 2012
    burt bienstock, Jan 24, 2012
    #158
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