Jack Dempsey v Muhammad ali

I would question whether it is even a particularly good stylistic match up for Ali.

The whole point of holding the fight, is that the underdog might win in some circumstances.

 

First just want to say some of the things I've read on this thread about Dempsey are just farcical haha! Trying to compare Dempseys punching with people like Henry Cooper!!???? Haha don't make me laugh Dempsey was in a whole other universe in terms of his power and destructiveness haha - yeah I'm sure Henry cooper could've damn near finished a fresh as a daisy Jess Willard who had one of the best chins in history with one punch which caved in his cheek bone - people need to seriously get real on this board - we've had people comparing The Great Jack Dempsey with Jerry Quarry for gods sake - this is beyond a joke now come on people lets get real - Jack Dempsey was certainly was of the greatest - an certainly one of - if not the - deadliest finishers in history - long considered the greatest heavyweight champion in history - please please please let's use genuine arguments when discussing him - not making stupid comparisons with fair contenders for their era - Dempsey in my view beats Ali - he would being walking a tightrope most of the time with the hands down pulling back and it's just too dangerous against someone with Dempseys combination of foot speed, hand speed and power and reach and experience.

 

PP, ESB by and large overestimate Ali, and underestimate Jack Dempsey .
Many posters see in their mind the image of Dempsey aainst Gene Tunney
when Jack as we know hadn't had a bout for THREE long years, and without
ONE tuneup or sans Jack Kearns, was a rusty old facsimile of the quick
vicious Manassa Mauler of his prime. THIS is what they see in their mind
when they envision Jack Dempsey...On the other hand they forget the Clay/Ali who had troubles with the likes of more mobile opponents as Doug Jones, lithe punchers as the left-hooking Henry Cooper who almost had Ali
kod in their bout at the end of a round...But Cooper one half the fighter of a prime Jack Dempsey, was a notorious "bleeder" whilst Dempsey harder to tag with his bobbing and weaving, almost NEVER CUT on his kisser due to soaking his face in brine juice. Norton gave Ali all he could handle and more in their trio of bouts, so Ali a great fighter did better against slower plodders as a Foreman, Lyle, Liston [if the 2 fights were on the level]?
Dempsey was a better ,quicker two handed hitter than Joe Frazier was,
and I seeing the FOTC in 1971, was convinced then and now that the two
heavyweights Jack Dempsey and my man Joe Louis, not burdened by
excess weight, but very strong and lithe, both had the style, the explosive
hitting to catch up to Ali and beat him ,all in their primes...
All three great fighters with their own unique styles....cheers PP.

 

It's good thing Ali never had 3 years off. He would have never come back.

I asked a dermatologist about this and he said it was entire bunkum. Dempsey did nothing to his skin but make it tasty.

Dempsey's defense was as porous as a colander. He was constantly open for the right and even former flyweight Carpentier rocked him to heels with a left hook.

I see a very early stoppage. First 2 minutes.

 

Speed kills right ?.....

Well, Ali had all the speed required to handle a Dempsey or Louis for that matter.
Once again the detractors use the Doug Jones and Cooper fights to fit their agenda.

 

the issue with speed in this fight is dempsey is incredibly quick on film. a different kind of speed though, much more explosive. i wouldn't say ali holds nearly the advantage here that he did against most of his opponents

 

Lyle was ahead on scorecards, and the bout was stopped premature.
The ref could have given him an 8 count because that rule wasn´t waved.

 

Yeah and that stellar talent ATG heavyweight champ Karl Mildenberger was able to press Ali the whole way until the late rounds and had Ali wincing and wriggling his way free or grabbing hold everytime he managed to get close in to give Ali a few digs - and the crippled fragile chinned struggling Floyd Patterson again never looked like being even hurt until the later rounds yet Dempsey gets blown away in 2???? Ps interesting postscript to the Ali-Patterson I fight - has anyone seen the first round?? There are no punches landed at all by either man in the first round haha it's ridiculous not one!? Patterson at least tries a few jabs which fall short but Ali doesn't even attempt any shots - I don't see how Ali is going to Hirt Dempsey when he rarely throws much early?? Chuvalo gave Ali a rough enough time himself - Ali would really feel the heat from a 24 year old Dempsey

 

Ali was a very flawed fighter.
In the end he won most of the time, but he seemed to struggle with weak men as much as he did with strong men.

I still think Ali has a bigger chance though

 

S,were the MANY great trainers of yesterday delusional when they made their fighters soak their hands and face with brine ? How would a Dermatologist today have an inkling of the methods old timers used soaking their face and hands so the thinner gloves that battered their faces
wouldn't cut them to pieces thus preventing the fighter from fighting again in a week or two ? A Britton, a Greb, a Dundee for instance, went through hundreds of bouts without their faces cut enough to stop a fight.
No fighter in history never avoided absorbing right crosses from an opponent. and Dempsey was noted by no less an observer than Gene Tunney, who said that "hitting Dempsey on the chin was very, very difficult",because he always had his chin tucked into his shoulders".
To prove your point you cite Georges Carpentier hitting Dempsey with a right cross and shaking Jack up. True, but Carpentier had by all acounts
as fast and accurate a right cross ever seen. He flattened heavyweights such as Bomb. Billy Wells [2], Joe Beckett, Bandsman Rice, and the rugged Ted Kid Lewis , All with a laser RIGHT HAND . So for Dempsey to be hit on the button with a Carpentier right hand proves nothing...Besides Tex Rickard before the Dempsey/Carpentier bout went into the dressing room of Dempsey and pleaded with Jack to give the fans a run for their money, and
Dempsey did just that until that Carpentier right hand told Jack. I better get down to business" which Dempsey did pronto...
Well S, I have to stop now as I have to soak my face in brine. I expect a tussle with a damsel....

 

And what do you think would happen if Ali landed his right cross on the above?

Sorry to rain on your parade but Ali's right cross was a damn site more effective and powerful than Carpentiers.

 

Yes, two minutes. Max.

 

So you want to play this game ? So why didn't Ali's right hand ko Frazier, Norton, Cooper, Terrell, Mathis, Doug Jones, Mac Foster, Bugner etc.? See how silly your game is ?
What as you say,would happen if Dempsey's vaunted left landed flush on Ali as Coopers did or Joe Fraziers did ? All this conjecture is a silly game.
And thank you for "raining on my parade"...I was thirsty...

 

He would get up, dust himself off and get down to business.