Jack Dempsey vs Ezzard Charles

Ezzard has the skills to pull the trick, but something tells me that Jack gets h im late.

 

Charles was a great fighter but disagree he has a good style to beat Dempsey. Fighters like Ali and Tunney more come to mind.

 

I understand a lot of people going for Ezz to spring some kind of upset in being a brilliant boxer but I have my reservations about him being able to survive a prime Dempsey?

As brilliant as Ezzard Charles was, has was always a steady starter against heavyweights and Dempsey could be like lightning out of the blocks?

Plus Charles might get into clinches a little to readily at times which is something which would make me fear for him against Dempsey because Jack would brutalise him inside?

Ezz was a very economical boxer in terms of movement, though quick being a natural light heavyweight, he didn't move continually and Dempsey's feet in his prime were really good, light and quick, his movements and quick changes of angles were sudden and he could track the quickest fighters without too much problem - Carpentiers movement was extreme at times practically running around the ring and Dempsey still had him twisting and turning to escape?

Couple this with Ezz against Louis always there to be hit really had Louis been able to pull the trigger anymore my gut feeling is Ezz would've been in serious danger and every time Dempsey seemed to even half land against Carp it made you wince the difference in strength was pretty evident? I don't know whether Ezz would be really over powered?

Plus Ezz's own speedy moves would be negated by Dempsey's speed of attack and because he didn't move vastly his margin for error would be that much tighter?

And again for all Ezz's greatness sometimes he could be a little one paced at least in his heavyweight defences etc - when I think about Ezzard in there with the Dempsey who massacred Jess Willard and even the guy who cold clocked Fred Fulton I picture Ezz in the Pat Valentino fight, Pat I think bares some basic style similarities to Dempsey, the crouching and leaning away lots of rights to the body from mid range and generally similar types of punches used from range but Valentino obviously wasn't in the same ballpark as a Jack Dempsey but he was game and dogged, whereas Dempsey was search and destroy but he put in stiff opposition at times and traded some good shots with Charles - there was quite a bit of slam bang in that fight and from both guys? Charles didn't have it all his own way by any means? Yeah lots of Charles' shots were connecting and rocking Valentino's head back but not REALLY hurting him and Valentino himself was matching him a lot and for the most part it was Charles who usually had to back pedal out?

Now Rev Valentino up to Dempsey's searing pace and ferocity and I think Charles is basically staying in there on survival and yeah he put in an awesome performance against Rocky Marciano but let's be honest he was being he was never in any danger of winning that in reality and the brief moments when he really did hurt Marciano pretty noticeably were so few that when he did it sent the stadium into derision where Marciano was rocking him big time again and again throughout most of the rounds by comparison he was able to roll with a lot of Marciano shots because a lot were very telegraphed but Dempsey's were faster and I don't see Charles being able to roll with those blazing fast shots?

 

Charles was too technically good for Dempsey, his footwork, defense and shorter punches would see him land first time and again to win a very clear decision.

 

Dempseys punches were shorter than Charles.

 

Charles for all his talent was not a big heavyweight and hittable. A prime Dempsey would hurt him , eventually. Dempsey was stronger, took a better shot, hit much harder and had excellent speed of his own .. I just think Ez is over rated here at heavyweight by many ..

 

Ezz has much better footwork than Dempsey and anyone he ever faced, and would be able to take his best punch imo. Charles would be able to slip Dempsey's shots, block his shots inside, and be able to return fire, Charles from his early defences would also be quicker than Dempsey and have the footwork to keep Dempsey off him and proved in the Marciano fight he has #1 the stamina to keep up with (and outdo) Dempsey and the chin to take his best.

So he has the tools to use the game-plan he'd need to, which would be...

Smother, block and stink it out on the inside, Charles could do this and had the ability to go to the body with every chance he had, he was also smaller, and more better on the inside, Dempsey wouldn't be used to that. Charles's body shots would take his toll on Dempsey's sus stamina and would make winning the later rounds easier, he'd have to stay the **** away from Dempsey early on. Dempsey's probably gonna knock him down but is an unbelievably overrated finisher, he wouldn't stop Charles.

Charles starts timing Dempsey more, starts sneaking punches in here and there whilst Dempsey is still having lots of success by just doing what made him good. He'd be taking body shots and be getting turned and made to miss though, and not looking a million bucks like he did against bums like Firpo and Willard.

Dempsey's sus stamina is on full display due to his aggression early on and the body shots from Ezzard, Charles starts to find things easier and is outboxing Dempsey with out too many issues. As it gets to 11/12 ect Ezzard starts winning easily, Jack still trying of course, just failing. Charles's blocking, head-movement, height and skill nullifying a lot of Dempsey's best attributes.

So basically, I see Dempsey winning the first few rounds big, maybe KDs but slowing down and starting to show he's not too hot against a boxer who knew what they were doing. The mid rounds being very competitive and probably subject to different scorecards, but then late once Dempsey's really slowed down, Charles sweeps the championship rounds. Taking a comfortable but intense UD.

I mean, if Dempsey knocks him down 6/7 times I can see him taking a decision, but is he really going to knock Charles down 7 times?

Funny how Dempsey always looked poor against of smaller guys, but there's always an excuse. No, he didn't have an off night, he had a style that wasn't effective against smaller fighters.

Charles clean UD15

 

This basically surmises all I've got to say.

 

You say about Charles' footwork, but as a Heavyweight he was purely economical. He didn't move in the way to trouble Dempsey, and Charles wouldn't box conservatively or negatively either. He'd be right there, trying to counter, and Dempsey would be springing in and out, moving with his faster feet landing left hooks and snapping shots. You seem to seriously downgrade Dempsey's actual boxing skills here. He had springy footwork, awesome bobbing movement / defense and was a good shot picker. You mention this about Charles but fail to mention Dempsey's more than adequate skills. Dempsey struggled cutting off movers, but he would be lucky here as Heavyweight Charles would not be moving around him excessively what so ever. Dempsey's power is also a factor despite his toughness, and combined with his speed would be able to take Charles out of his stride and make him think twice, and possibly rock him and sustain his momentum.
You also mention sneaky shots, but Dempsey was clearly the better short puncher than Charles.

I also fail to see how Dempsey has 'sus stamina', and have never seen any evidence of it. He was a fast starter of course, but he didn't exactly blow his load and become an exhausted wreck. Not really the same. He may lose some edge, but he'd be there and would be able to in-fight all night. By this time, Dempsey would have also done his own telling work on Charles, where it would probably become an in fight, where Dempsey is at least equal in skill, and is also the stronger, bigger guy.

You also say Dempsey struggles with smaller fighters, but mentioned Charles height as a factor beforehand .

And why is your post so aggressive towards Dempsey?

Dempsey decision.

 

Nice breakdown and I tend to agree. I think Ezz footwork throws Dempsey off balance and I don’t think (correct if wrong) Dempsey was to good at adapting.

 

Dempsey in 7

 

Charles would have caught Dempsey with too many jabs because Dempsey dipped his head forwards bringing it nearer to his opponents lead hand meaning the jab didn`t have far to travel so Dempsey didn`t have much time to see the shot travelling and Charles was more skilled than anyone Dempsey fought plus he had a better body attack than Dempsey, if Jack did win it would be from a come from behind one shot knockout, Marciano use to land mopre shots than Dempsey did.

 

Coz he's overrated and your group bullying and shitting on Charles gave me an edge

 

Too bad we don't have a photo of Charles and Dempsey like we had of Marciano and Liston.

Or do we?

YES!

https://i.ebayimg.com/images/g/fMEAAOxyaURTgIP6/s-l300.jpg

 

Is Charles stood on something? I always though Dempsey was a little taller (like an inch or two).

EDIT: Oh yeah the scale. I'm blind.