Jack Dempsey vs George Foreman.

Exactly that.
I made a thread once asking who else would of beaten Foreman that night.
Fact of the matter is, we only truely discovered just how resilient Ali was that night.

 

for all his talent George proved he was still a work in progress. Those two destructions May have told us what he was capable of against Guys who gave Ali life and death but they mostly showed us what he could do when everything went his own way. Crucially, It did not show us what George could do once a spoiler took him further into the fight at world level.

Ali was a seasoned elite fighter and at that time had the most recently fought competative, winning, world class rounds behind him going into that fight than almost any other challenger going into a title fight.

Going into that fight all George had to draw upon was a bunch of appalling mismatches in 1972 against a pack of guys like Terry Sorrell (who lost far more fights than they ever won) and two fights against world class guys that went completely his way, turning out to be just as easy.

It was not enough. You can't blame the kid.

I think you should say George was not as great as thought. He proved he was a work in progress. Foreman had absolutely huge potential. Fabulous. But he went into that fight with questions yet to be answered, And he came out of it with them answered. He was not yet as great as first thought. This was ESTABLISHED OPINION for many many years.

I can think of a lot if champions who could have an answer for Georges tactics that night. It was an extremely foolish way to fight shooting his load like that. All anyone had to do was be tough enough to smother George for four rounds, he was on his knees after that.

Ali was taking punches on the gloves, it as easy for him to anticipate the left right left right childish way George was punching at him. Ali rode every shot George connected with. I'm not saying that is not enough to hurt and wear down a smaller man but Ali was a big dude who knew where to stand.

 

I can think of a lot of champions who could have an answer for Georges tactics that night. It was an extremely foolish way to fight shooting his load like that. All anyone had to do was be tough enough to smother George for four rounds, he was on his knees after that.

 

They sucked too and he lost to both of them.. Willard was the more seasoned pro.

 

Very interested to see your picks choklab, i have bumped my thread i spoke about.

 

He went the distance with the latter. Not an easy feet for a complete novice. Of the 19 fights that Fireman Flynn had between March 1909 and March 1912 he lost only 3 times. Once to Philadelphia Jack O'brien, once to Sam Langford by knockout in the 8th (he also won the previous fight by decision), and once to Montana Jack Sullivan. He won 1 and drew another against Billy Papke.

Hardly someone you can describe as sucked.

Who was Foreman fighting in his 8th fight? Robert Davila who had a record of 21-14 who he outweighed by 11 lbs. Davila normally weighed in around the 195 mark. Foreman failed to stop him and went the full 8 rounds.

I would say they are on the same page.

 

Because we learned a lot about Ali that fight.

 

We learned more about how inexperienced Foreman was.

 

Depends who you think instigated the outcome that night. Foremans shortcomings, or Ali's achievement.

I would hardly consider a prime athlete landing numerous bombs on Ali as "imploding." Ali outsmarted the **** out of Foreman. It was Ali's class, not Foremans lack of it that dictated the result that night.

 

George had a naive faith in his own power because he had never came through a competitive fight up until that time. It was not his fault it is where he was at in those days. No thought went into the direction or sequence of his punches, at a rediculous pace. George wasted far too much energy. it was like a gift to Ali to be fighting somebody like that. or for that matter many other seasoned elite fighters. It is extremely rare to see a guy at championship level doing what George did. What an implosion.

 

The biggest load of tripe I have read in years, and that takes some doing on ESB I'll give you that much.

So Foreman has had 40 fights, and stopped 37 guys by bludgeoning them to defeat. but according to you he is supposed to think, oh its 32 year old Ali, so what I'll do is get up on my toes and out box the guy.

Tell you what to do, give us a list of names who could have stayed on the ropes and taken those shots the way Ali did.

 

Your definition of a troll seems to be somebody whose opinion differs significantly from your own!

The whole point of this forum is to bring together people with different opinions.

Sometimes you learn something from a person with the opposite viewpoint, and sometimes you don’t.

If you have never learned anything from anybody however, you are almost certainly bigoted and wrong in equal measure!

 

I lived all through those years.

Very few gave Ali a chance. Some felt he would get seriously injured.
Ali was thought to be old and easy pickings for Foreman. George looked and was thought to be indestructible after destroying Frazier and Norton so easily.

Ali went into this bout with the game plan of out boxing Foreman. However he found conditions to be not conducive for this game plan. George was cutting the ring Effectively. Ali was moving three steps to Foreman's one. The ring was heavily padded making lateral movement exhausting. The ring was small AND Foremans speed surprised Ali. Cosell asked Ali if anything surprised him about Foreman and the response was.....speed. He was fast.

Foreman was a human forse of nature and I agree few would withstand his blows that night. Ali caught few full bore punches from Foreman. Many were caught on the arms and elbows. Some got in but never Georges Sunday punches. These were generally too roundhouse or telegraphed and as such were avoided.

I do not believe Foreman would have beaten Ali no matter the fight plan or ring conditions that night. In the end Ali was just too great a boxer to lose to any slugger......Liston, Foreman...those big punchers were Ali's meat. Also don't forget Ali's toughness. Very difficult to cave Ali in. Too much heart and too good of a chin. No one took it to the body like Ali either. Norton said it was like hitting a stone wall.

Many still believe Foreman was never counted out. Burt Sugar even believed this. Foreman was counted out for a ten count. What makes it appear that he wasn't is the announcers at ringside, because of the crowds roar, miss heard the count. They were two counts behind the ref. The ref screamed TEN and waved his arms in the classic Your OUT manner. Also the count was not long. It was timed on WWofS several times. George was down 10 seconds.

 

A 5-26 Journeyman boxer might have naïve faith in his power. Not Foreman, his power was real.

He let his hands go. He got huge punches in. He would have destroyed but a handful of ATGs that night.

 

A great take on the fight. And I agree.

So many people got this fight wrong and its easy to see why because of results versus Frazier common opponents Frazier and Norton. But going into the fight nobody could forecast the advantage Ali had in recent competative rounds. George, although nobody knew it, was severely disadvantaged in that department. Too many easy fights and not enough real competative fights.

George was equipped to be a great fighter but he was too inexperienced to fight like one on this occasion under those circumstances.

Ali exploited this in a way Norton and Frazier could not.