Jack Dempsey vs. Harry Greb (1919)

You replied too soon. I already changed my comment. Apologies there speedy mcghee.

That said, I stand by my new comments, feel free to reply

 

Dempsey would be rated a lot higher today if he was filmed in HD I truly believe that.

He was lauded for his head movement and subtle defence. Today with jerk frame it looks like he walked through a lot of punches.

If we see him slipping those as we saw him vs Tunnel. If we accept he got careless one time against Firpo, I think we would rate him much higher.

Same issue with Wilde, I feel he benefits from better footage also.

 

It's a pickem, Greb won shut outs against 3 of Dempsey's best wins. And ofcourse Greb beat than man who dominated Dempsey in Tunney.

He has the speed and probably skill and ring generalship over Dempsey (hard to know without seeing him). Dempsey ofcourse has about 20lbs on Greb so he could bully Greb and we don't know how Greb handles keeping him off.

We agree occasionally.....although Dempsey could potentially bully him to a decision too

 

That wouldn't pan out mate. He got tagged silly by Brennan in his prime. Firpo knocked him out the ring. And Tunney hit him at will. Plus his worst performances weren't filmed

 

It should be noted Gibbons was a boxer puncher who's best punch was the left hook, so was never going to match up great with a left hooker like Dempsey.

The more varied Greb boxer mover skillset is a very different proposition.......in theory ofcourse. But I tend to believe it.

 

At least then it would be much harder to dispute the facts with clear footage.

The write ups of Dempsey in his pomp describe someone better than some of the jerk film makes out.

Imagine if we could all see the loss vs Flynn and all his title defences.

The Tunney fights are dominant victories but show flashes of brilliance.

Maybe it would pan out, maybe it wouldn't but clearer evidence can only be a positive.

 

He also got knocked out cold in 1 round by a 37 year old journeyman. That film wouldn't help his cause. Or his 4 round loss to Fat Willie Meehan. He was knocked down 9 times by 5-8 Johnny Sudenberg in 1915. Even at the peak of his powers, he struggled to a 10 round draw with 185lb Billy Miske, where he was outboxed for several rounds.

 

In their primes Dempsey who had a 25 pound advantage over my very favorite fighter Harry Greb, would in a 15 title fight would certainly catch , hurt badly, and stop Harry Greb... Yes I know Greb , got the best of Dempsey in their sparring sessions. But to me it means zilch as so many times at Stillman's gym I would see top main event fighters smacked around by journeyman fighters for a couple of rounds...Meaningless in a real important fight...Because Greb did better than Dempsey against some opponents they both faced has little to do with an actual fight as styles come into play...
I once read an article in an old boxing magazine written by a famous boxing writer who when Greb retired in 1926 shortly be fore his ill-fated death, quoted Greb saying " after 5 or so rounds Dempsey WOULD KILL ME ".
Unquote, for what its worth....Harry Greb in my eyes was the greatest P4P fighter of them all, but I cannot see the Middleweight edition of Greb avoiding the much heavier, stronger edition of the tigerish Dempsey, hurting and stopping Greb...IMO...Like putting in Marvin Hagler with a prime Joe Louis..

 

Greb's record in 1919 is better than Dempsey's entire career.

And for the record, he beat Bill Brennan 4 times, Billy Miske twice, Mike Gibbons, Willie Meehan, Battling Levinsky 3 times... all in 1919.

It is well known that Demsey prefered the dirigibles like Willard and Firpo to speed, shifty types. Fifteen rounds is probably too long for Greb to hold out but over 10 or even 12, it would be a very tight contest.

 

I'm the only one picking Greb outright to win on points ?
Fifteen rounds too, whatever, he gets it done. He outpointed everyone, didn't he ?
Even Powerpuncher has it a "pick 'em", and gives Dempsey a chance of winning by decision. WTF.
Not sure what's going on here.

 

The film isn't so bad that we can see him being hit. Hyperbole was how things were sold back then.

 

My basis for that is Greb is essentially moving up against the biggest strongest most relentless puncher he's faced. It's similar to Hagler moving up to face Mike Spinks. Unknown territory, even if Greb did beat lesser HWs

He could simply get bullied and outgunned but survive and I think he probably does survive even if he loses. Greb is almost certainly the superior boxer though so in turn he could pull it off.

 

Take mayweather now.

A guy throws a punch, at the last minute floyd ducks or slips and then back pedals. With jerk footage it could easily look like he's been punched.

I'm not saying Dempsey had a great defence, I'm saying that people said he did I'm saying with better footage we would have a more complete opinion today.