A bout between Jack Dempsey and Harry Greb would be far interesting and much better than Dempsey's fight with Georges Carpentier. I once thought that Dempsey would be far too big and strong for Greb, but the latter did extremely well against bigger fighters who gave Dempsey fits. There is a very good chance that Greb would win on points in a bout with Dempsey. - Chuck Johnston
It's a silly discussion. Prime Dempsey truely hit like a sledgehammer. In a championship fight over 15 rounds the first solid blow Dempsey would land would end the fight. Be it to the body or the head. Greb was great but no middleweight could take a Dempsey punch. Greg does well until he is hit and then the bout is quickly over. Dempsey is then blasted by the press for fighting a middleweight.
agree with those who take dempsey at his best and greb at his. greb had a style to beat so many good heavyweights but from a puncher like dempsey- all it takes is one punch to hurt and then some more to finish the show. getting hit by a dempsey , or louis, or tyson is a big qualitative difference from most heavyweights. maybe greb wins in a 10 rounder but for 15 id favor dempsey maybe by a slaughter as perry suggests
I read that article too. I believe he said after 6 though. Revisionist historians have Dempsey as a frightened bum and Greb as a beleagered Mr. Clean fighter. There was a reason he was considered the dirtiest fighter ever along with Zivic and it was not a vast right-wing conspiracy. Why was he not mentioned in the greatest fighters of the first half of the 20th century poll? There are reasons for this, no matter what current day revisionists say. As you say Burt, I take the people of the times over now any day. Harry was an all time great, but Dempsey as a heavy hurts and puts out his lights.
Greb will be battered and bruised during any attempt to tie Dempsey up. There is a reason Dempsey was considered the roughest of all hwt champions.
Morlocks, thanks for your fresh post laced with sanity. As I have posted on numerous occasions , on ESB today there are a number of Dempsey "haters", YES I said HATERS who see the Manassa Mauler as on a par with a Butterbean as a fighter though THOUSANDS of great fighters, boxing gurus, trainers, who saw the peak Dempsey fight and rated him as one of the very greatest of all heavyweights, because of his UNIQUE combination of sinewy speed, and violent punching power coupled with a toughness never surpassed by a heavyweight . These people of today who belittle Jack Dempsey's prowess as a fighter proclaim to know more NINETY years later than a Sam Langford, Gene Tunney, Mickey walker, Jack Sharkey, Max Schmeling, Ray Arcel, etc and the hundreds of veteran boxing writers who in a poll conducted in the 1950s, chose Jack Dempsey as the greatest heavyweight they had seen...In his prime and H2H I have none better than he...cheers M...
None of those men got to see the skilled big men of the past 50 years. I don't see why giving Greb a fair shot against Dempsey is such an outlandish view. When we look at the facts, Greb beat Dempsey's title challengers(Gibbons Miske Brennan Carpentier) multiple times and often did so in more impressive fashion than Dempsey did.
I agree Burt. While Dempsey is at a disadvantage IMO against some champions since that poll you reference was taken, I have no doubt of his abilities against the majority of champions. I will take the words of those who actually saw him in the ring during his prime years vs. the new age revisionists.
Do you think dempseys abilities were proven against the best of his era? Ali Frazier Fore,am Marciano Liston Louis Holmes Tyson Holyfield all fought the best of the era. Did Dempsey? If the answer is no, then we don't know how great he was.
Someone thinks Greb was Mr. Clean? By the way, someone thinks Dempsey was Mr. Clean either? But seriously, "There are reasons he was not mentioned in the greatest fighters of the first half century poll." I wish you would elaborate on this as it is a very interesting point. *I would guess that many of the sportswriters polled in 1950 actually had not seen or had seen little of many of the fighters of the Dempsey-Greb or earlier eras, but it is remarkable that there wasn't a core of writers who had seen and would support Greb, providing the question asked was about who was the best fighter. The Ring Magazine article on this poll discusses folks like Tex Rickard and Jimmy Walker, causing this reader to wonder what exactly was the question.
EM, I recall that the boxing writers who made up the poll were veteran boxing writers at least Dempsey's age and older, and considered veteran writers in 1950...They all saw the peak Dempsey of 1919-23 and up to the 1950 poll. Not all agreed with Dempsey as the greatest heavyweight, such as Nat Fleischer who had Jack Johnson as #1 heavyweight. The question was "who was the greatest fighter[heavyweight] of the first half of the 29th century ?...And Dempsey was chosen by a large majority.. Yes ,the poll was conducted before the advent of Ali, Tyson etc, but such men as Jack Sharkey, Gene tunney, Mickey Walker, Ray Arcel, and notably Max Schmeling who lived to age 99, saw them all and BOXED with Dempsey when Jack was in Berlin, in his autobiography testified that of all the great fighters he had seen, "Dempsey was in a special category over all of these great fighters"..Schmeling seen them all and fought Louis of course, knew his onions I can safely say...NO ONE could know for certain which great heavyweight would have beaten every other heavyweight all at their zenith, but I can say for certain no one would out tough the Manassa Mauler. He was one tough cookie in the squared circle. He gave no quarter and asked for no quarter. Dempsey, Louis, Marciano, and Frazier were my heavyweights that were my very favourites...
Burt You probably know more about it than I do. But what is confusing to me is that Al Buck wrote an article about this poll in the April, 1950 issue of The Ring, with the headline "Jack Dempsey, idol fo fistiana, named by American sports writers 'Boxing's Top Man' of last half century." And the article goes on to discuss Tex Rickard, Jim Farley, and Jimmy Walker as candidates--but none are boxers at all. This might just be sloppy writing on Buck's part. **As for the sportswriters, I am certain many had seen Dempsey and possibly many of the others had seen film. ***I am indeed surprised that Greb apparently didn't get a single vote.
