Jack Dempsey vs. Harry Greb (1919)

Dempsey cannot be held libel for the state of the American culture at that time. The American culture is what prevented a Dempsey Wills bout....not Jack Dempsey.

 

The point is SIZE is not a prerequisite for hard punching. Being able to punch very hard most trainers believe is an in born talent. Dempsey, Louis, Marciano had that talent. Powerful, explosive punching power. Carnera who was 6'6 260 pounds as an example was a relatively light hitter. And so forth.

 

S, ya ever hear of a natural progress...And let us not forget that Julian Black and john Roxborough Joe Louis's black managers made sure along with the great trainer Jack Blackburn, who DESPISED Jack Johnson as a person, made certain to not repeat the mistakes that Lil Arthur made outside the ring...Joe Louis
at first gained the trust of white America, and by his fantastic punching in the ring and modesty out of the ring, he became a champion and morphed into the most beloved sports figure in America. I remember as a youngster how admired and beloved was the Brown Bomber...Progress S, progress is the key...

 

What a total crock.

Rickard and Co. were only interested in the retaining the belt while getting the highest reward/lowest risk fights that they could still sell as competitive to a gullible public.

Don't hide their crimes behind the greater problems of that day.

 

Not a crock. The truth. Many look upon today as racist times in America. The level of racism in the U.S.during that time period so far exceeds today it was off the charts. You had people still living that remembered civil war times and the ideology that came with those times. As such everything needs to be looked upon in that context. Based on all the evidence Dempsey wanted this bout to take place. Everyone else did not. Everyone else were Rickard, Kearns and key players within the state athletic commissions. Once Dempsey broke with Kearns he immediately himself pursued a fight with Wills. The reason it did not occur had nothing to do with Jack Dempsey. Wills said so HIMSELF so who are you to disagree?

 

No, the bottom line is that most of the experts who were around back then who saw both men fight and were able to assess their strengths and weaknesses disagree with you. Carpentier wasn't much bigger than Greb. In fact he was only about 7 lbs heavier than what Greb would have come in at, which would have been about 165. And he wasn't half as fast and nowhere near as great a fighter. Did he fall apart after one solid blow from Jack? No. How about Gibbons at 175? Did he? No.

So it more than stands to reason that Greb wouldn't either.

It's only meaningless because you want to dismiss it. In fact it underscores the illogic of your premise that Greb, who wasn't much smaller or lighter than Conn was in this bout, would fall apart at the first solid blow landed by Dempsey.

Conn didn't fall apart after the first hard blow from Louis. Carp didn't fall apart after the first solid blow landed by Dempsey. So I ask you, why would Greb fall apart from the first solid blow landed by Dempsey?

 

The ideology that caused 225,000 men to die in order to defeat the slaveholding Confederacy?

And if it was so racist still in 1925, why would all those racists care about events that would incite riots that would surely kill more Blacks than Whites?


And what giant, monumental shift had occurred in a mere ten years that allowed Joe Louis to be given the opportunity to fight for the championship?

 

S, I answered your question above but you chose to ignore my response to your query. WHY ? All you seem to worry about is white racism that truly is now almost extinct, but you in your
holiness avoid the issue of black racism today...And if you wish to ignore my responses to your posts, just tell me s, and I will get the message. Say what you will about me but I try to answer
posters who responded to me. At any rate your silence is deafening...Ciao...

 

Didn't see your earlier response, BB.

So, you are going to tell me that the Great Depression, a time of the type of economic hardships that usually inflame divisions in any society, instead allowed for a great healing and progressive growth?

Excuse me if I find that a bit hard to swallow as history does provide many examples of such developments.

I did some research into the extinct white racism and found this wonderful item from some obvious playacting between members of different races. It is really great we all can just get along now...

http://gawker.com/chicago-cop-fired-for-posing-with-black-suspect-dressed-1707173176

 

So to bolster your case you show we "racists" two dumb cops making a fool of themselves on a perpetrator, whilst crime and killings are exploding at an alarming rate in certain areas of the U.S. , but you conveniently ignore this fact. Oh well, I get your drift...atsch

 

Primo had 71 kos in 88 wins for a near70%ko record, he must have been a monster puncher.:deal

 

Calzaghe too. :good

 

Carnera had many fixed bouts.

Dempsey carried Carpentier.

The progressive movement took shape in the 20s into the 30s abd paved the way for Louis. Louis had to give up plenty to get his title shot.

Again no middleweight is taking Dempseys punch full forse and staying erect.

 

A broad and rather inaccurate statement. There were many progressive elements in the US in the late 19th century which led to , among other things, the 20th Amendment by 1920.

But I am taking it that the mild-mannered, humble Wills was too "uppity" for the 1920's mentality that saw the jazz age and the return of dough boys from Progressive Europe.

Again, hiding behind the greater and more profound issues of the day is just the most pathetic cop-out. The reasons Wills was avoided were about color... but that color was green.

Let's look aside the most egregious aspect of this defense of Dempsey, that Greb was actually American Lightheavy Champion before he was middleweight champion. How about the fact that Tommy Gibbons, who fought at middleweight until 1919, stood up to Dempsey's punches, both legal and very low, for 15 rounds? This is the same Tommy Gibbons that Greb beat 3 times, if we are scoring at home.

 

1919 specifically was one of the worst years in US history for racial violence.
1921 was horrendous too.