jack dempsey vs harry greb, 1921

others can no doubt speak more thoroughly on it than i can but apparently greb trounced dempsey in sparring. accounts need to be taken with a grain of salt, especially tales of sparring sessions but from what i've read it's generally agreed that greb got the better of him and then some

 

From everything I have read about Greb and Dempsey's sparring sessions, Greb dominated Dempsey. I may be in the minority here, but I think if Dempsey and Greb had fought back then that Harry would have been victorious, thus making Greb the Heavyweight Champion of the World.

 

As I have posted before...Harry Greb got the best of Dempsey in their three sparring session...That is established...
But I have read in old Ring Mags ,where Greb was quoted as saying to reporters that,
" In a regular fight, after a couple of rounds, Jack would kill me ". Unquote...
Years ago in Stillmans gym I would watch prelim fighters,get the best of great main event fighters, for a couple of rounds quite often...And I believe in an all out war,Dempsey was too big and strong for my favorite fighter, Harry Greb...I think that that quote of Geb's was actually said before Harry died in 1926...

 

Hey, Burt. How are you? B.B., I have to disagree with you on one thing here. Now, I too have read where Greb said "if it goes more than 6 Jack would knock me flat" or something like that. In my opinion, Greb was just being kind and sportsmanlike by saying that. I don't believe that Greb would call a man out for YEARS and believe that he couldn't beat the guy he was calling out. I think Greb would have been capable of out boxing Dempsey in a 10 rounder. I say 10 rounder because I read where there was talk of a 10 rounder between the two legends. It was always Dempsey or his people who prevented the fight from taking place. I don't know why they decided against the bout, but one thing is certain, Greb wanted it and wanted it bad. I am of the opinion that Greb believed he could beat Jack Dempsey. Now, I am a fan of both, but there is no fighter that I like more than Harry Greb. It is a shame that he didn't get his opportunity at the heavyweight title. Who could hold it against Greb if he lost anyway, he was a one-eyed middleweight! Of course, few knew he was blind in one eye back then.

Anyway, I hope to hear back from you Burt. I actually wanted to ask you a few questions about your father's experience at Tunney-Greb. I know you have shared the details before, but I was just wondering what other details he might have shared with you. You said that he said it was "the worst beating he had ever seen of a main event fighter". How close were his seats? What was your dad's name, if you don't mind me asking? You are the only person I have ever conversed with that actually knows someone who saw Greb in action so forgive me if I seem intrusive. Thanks, Burt.

 

Actually, as much as I admire Harry Greb...and even knowing about the good fights he had with Gene Tunney and his successful sparring sessions with Jack...I think it's better for Harry's legacy that he never got his shot at a prime Jack Dempsey in a real fight. I'll just leave it at that.

 

http://www.harrygreb.com/homepagewithframeset.html

Go to newspaper articles 1920 ...

 

I couldn't disagree with you more. When Greb was beating his *ss during those sparring sessions, why didn't Jack turn up the heat and do something about it. It's not like Dempsey was a slow starter. There were a lot of people witnessing these sessions too, something like 2,000 is what I remember reading. A lot of embarrassment for the Heavyweight Champ. All he had to do was get him out of there, right? Greb's chin was made of iron. I am not saying there is no way Dempsey could've beaten Greb, but I would not be so quick to right Harry off. A lot of Dempsey fanatics tend to overrate Jack a little. He fought mostly Greb left overs and didn't beat them as well as Greb did. Anyway, we can disagree. I just wanted to add my two cents. :good

 

Abdullah, my wathers name was Willie..as a youngster he boxed and smoked in smoker bouts for awhile until he got hitched...
He drove a cab out of thye Greenwich Village area, anhd his favorite local boxer was Gene Tunney...On May 23,1922 my dad and other cabbies went to the old MSG to see their favorite Tunney,fight the villian Harry Greb from Pittsburgh...They sat in the end arena seats, because dough was scarce for them...What he saw that night he would always tell me when I was old enough that He never saw a beating that Tunney ,about 12 pounds lighter than Greb recieved...Always mentioned that fact to me...The crowd early on was screaming for the ref to stop the slaughter, butthe bout and the beating continued to the end....Like a butcher hammering a swiss steak, some writer described...He alkways said that Harry Greb was the best fighter he ever saw, and he and I, saw Ray Roibinson in his prime several times.... It is ironic that my father later on lost an eye, as did his new idol Harry Greb, which was revealed after Greb's autopsy at the age of 32...
Think of this...In the last 5 or more years of his career Harry Greb had sight in only ONE eye, and partial sight feft in the other orbit, and yet fought everyone such as Gibbons, Tunney, Jack Dillon. Brennan, Loughran, Walker, Rosenbloom etc...He would be forced I read to fight at Angles so he could somewhat see his larger opponents...Winning most all the time with this secret handicap...Always worried about going blind from getting hit on his other eye...Whatv courage!..What a tough guy...Abdullah, I hope I answered some of your qustions...Keep punching, Burt.b.

 

What does it say about little Harry 5.8 ,160 pounds, when his name is even mentioned as an opponent with the prime 'man killing",Jack Dempsey @ 190 pounds...An awful lot, methinks...b.b.

 

man killing? dempsey was a GIANT killer...one who wouldn't fight a middleweight

 

Jorodz, let,s be realistic...What was in it for the heavyweight champion to tackle the middleweight champion Harry Greb ? Nothing if Dempsey wins the public would have said, so what,Dempsey was 30 pounds heavier...It would have been a "no win' situation...
After all , NO ONE ever suggested thatA tony Zale or Ray Robinson fight didn't occur with Joe Louis because Louis was worried about losing to either middleweight ? Why the double standard ?Louis had little to fear and NOTHING to gain.....Same with Dempsey, who in his prime 1921 feared no man...THEY feared him!.Except Greb, he was almost surreal!

 

true true and as always a good point. but the argument has been made before that dempsey's resume is relatively weak for an all time great. there's not a lot of names he could have fought but had he collected greb's scalp, and dropped the colour line, his legacy would have been improved. given the way we look at greb today, his domination of the heavyweight class of the times, can we not assume that if dempsey had trounced or impressively won we would consider it among his greatest wins? even at the time greb was thought of very highly and middleweight or not, it certainly couldn't have hurt dempsey's standing.