Jack Dempsey vs Joe Frazier, primes

You have to take into account the difference in era's as far as weight. If Dempsey were around in Fraziers time with the advances in training and nutrition, Dempsey would be closer to 215 himself.

Joe Frazier is held in the highest regard to me, as he is my second favorite fighter of all time behind the Great Mike Tyson, but all things considered, I would have to go with Dempsey, he just had a few more tools, mainly being a devastating 2 hand puncher where Joe threw a lot of lefts.

 

Film review shows

1. Floored 3x by Luis Firpo and saved from knockout by the typewriter

2. Put on rubber legs by a Carpentier right hand

3. Badly hurt by light-hitting Jack Sharkey

4. Stung by Brennan

5. Floored by Gene Tunney


I think his chin is good, but not great.

 

I'm really conflicted on this fight.

It could be that Frazier would take over in the middle rounds.

On the other hand, Dempsey's more two handed, faster out the gate ....

I also can't help remembering Ali talking about how Frazier cooperated in his own butt kicking in Jamaica

[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lLuJcObw-zU"]

This content is protected

[/ame]


"When he gets up, you'll notice he'll run right back into shots."

Would Dempsey do the same? This could be the story of the fight.

 

I like Joe Frazier by late stoppage

 

Firpo hit like a wrecking ball, and fighters like Sharkey, Carp, Brennan and Tunney can hurt anybody if they get them right.

I do think that his ability to fight when hurt might make his chin look better than it was.

 

Frazier TKO before rd 6. Different class of fighter based on visual evidence.

 

Dempsey ko victory

 

I agree. :deal

Plus, i find it very difficult to imagine a fighter weighing 19lbs less than Frazier, Peak for Peak, to ever beat him. Joe Frazier was a P4P machine at Heavyweight, you absolutely don't want to be weighing significantly less than him, & trying to take him to war, or he will eat you up like the ferocious junkyard dog he is. :scaredas:

 

I think never hooking with a hooker favors Jack here, the man who literally wrote the book on it. Neither liked dealing with shorter opponents, although both did a good deal of it. But Dempsey had more tools, and quickly wiped out the sort of monsters Joe needed attrition beat downs to eliminate.

For two rounds in 1968, Jerry Quarry was actually able to both out hook Frazier, and out work him in the trenches. Jack had far more power with which to do it with, and was a miserable ******* to try surviving once he had his man hurt.

Given a three knockdown rule scenario, Dempsey wouldn't let Smoke off the hook like Bonavena did in 1966. He had a combination of speed and power which wasn't like the primarily speed attack of Ali, or slowish bludgeon of Foreman. Joe would see stars early, and continue seeing stars until his corner or the referee called a halt.

 

Frazier took eleven rounds to finally subdue beached whale Buster Mathis ,who was unranked at the time, yet he is going to take out Dempsey in 6 or 7 rds?
Dempsey had more two fisted power ,faster hands ,and feet and a better chin. What more does he need?

 

If so how would he take advantage of the speed, agility advantages everyone's mentioned?

By the way, I see Frazier taking control of this fight in round 3-4(as several people have already said) after weathering the inevitable storm as he did against Quarry and Bonavena and bombard Jack with left hooks once he timed the right hand in the 3rd round. This would not go well for Jack.

 

The weight is deceiving. Joe had a large concentration of it below his chest and above his knees (with 27 inch thighs even when weighing below 200 pounds, as he did for four bouts in 1966), but a photograph showing him besides a somewhat age withered Dempsey during Jack's 75th birthday bash in 1970 shows Dempsey to be broader shouldered and bigger than Joe in the upper body. The matter of weight alone doesn't tell the whole story with regard to respective size.

Dempsey weighed 236 when he commenced training for Tommy Gibbons. In an era where a premium was not placed on minimizing weight, both guys would compete at considerably more than their usual peak weights, as neither was a Bob Foster type with difficulty gaining heft. (Jack came in at 198 for Carl Morris I, and 200 for Tom Riley, both in 1918.)

 

McVey, I think too many people conclude that Joe's right hand was a non-factor punch head to head against all time greats. Joe loaded up on the left hook against Ali in the FOTC because his anger and agression wanted to knock him out.

I trained with George Chuvalo. One of my trainers knew Eddie Machen and Quarry. All three of these men have said very clearly that Joe had more of a right hand punch than people give him credit for. Joe banged Quarry and Ali in the rematch with right hooks and straight rights.

We all know Frazier is known for his left-hook, but I see too much in this forum about Joe's so-called "absent" right hand. Frazier when he got close would sometimes start his body combinations with his right hook and than finished with the left.

 

This one probably comes up a few times each year, my opinion has not changed.

After a torrid pace over the first 3 rounds, Joe begins to take over by grinding Dempsey down befor stopping him in th 11th!