Jack Dempsey vs Joe Frazier

Bill you dont know the fact at all, Liston was not lurking in the ratings, he was a prelim fighter in 55 and Cleveland Williams got KO'd in 3 rds by Bob Satterfield, he was not anywhere near contention. Patterson just lost to Joey Maxim and Cus was not going after Marciano....Ingo I do not see taking Rocky's power but he was not in the rankings either. There was no one left for Marciano to fight after Nino got knocked off by Satterfield, had Nino beat Satterfield he may have been # 50...there was no one left for Marciano to make money with. He had 3-5 fights left in him but was also not a kid and the training regime and swarming wear them down style was not one for longevity and he had the cards stacked against him with Al Weil IN HIS POCKET. Marciano wanted to come back and fight Liston but he could not wiggle out of his contract with Weil, SO HE DECIDED AGAINST IT.

 

**** it......... The point was that Marciano was wise to retire at age 33........... His style was NOT for longevity.......... He knew he was fading or slipping by 1955 / '56..... Marciano pulled the plug at the right time......

MR.BILL

 

This is a tough match for both men, Dempsey never felt the pressure that Frazier could put on him but Frazier never felt the type of power that Jack Dempsey could generate with both hands. I think Dempsey hit harder than Quarry and Bonevena with either hand but I dont see any of Dempsey's opponents being able to put on the pressure of Frazier.
IMO this is a rugged war, a dogfight with Frazier getting hurt early and coming back but early damage resurfacing around the 10th rd with Dempsey turning it on again after a Frazier comeback...I am thinking a Dempsey stop some where from around the 10th but if he blows his wad, watch out for Joe.

 

True

 

I was told by some inside boxing guys. A friend of mine who has been around the game for years was on the inside of circle of boxing people. Marciano attempted to see if he could get around Weil and he felt he could beat Liston. He found out he could not fight Liston without giving Weil 50%, so he said **** it. I trust this guy, he has been involved with many Big deals and if I told you his name you would know of him. History would tell you Marciano would not have been the same fighter but he did have the will and who knows but I think he was better off staying retired, he blew up to 260 and he would never made it to his old fighting weight.

 

To comeback at the age of 35-37 with a style that depends on complete fitness IMO would be a mistake but I was wrong with Foreman, he made a successful comeback. Marciano had a different style and you couls only fight that way with a sparton lifestyle. I love the guy but I fear coming back could have been a mistake with his style.

Jeffries was a legend in his day but he listened to the followers and started to believe he could come back at age 36, lose 100lbs and fight the best with no tune-up...I think Johnson was great but I don't think that Jeffires would have beaten Tommy Burns

Ali had me convinced he had the magic vs Holmes but do we forget he looked like **** against a 6 fight Spinks

Its amazing when a fighter comes back and I give credit to Ali after an almost 3 yr layoff and Vitali after a 4yrs layoff and Foreman after a 10 yrs layoff....These fighters deserve credit but they also did not too many wars under there belt and were not spent( foreman had a war with Lyle and a beating by Ali and Young)

Marciano looked like he could fight on for another 3-5 fights 2-3 yrs from his last fight in 1955 but a comback is a different story and not everyone could do it. Marciano liked the new dollars they were paying but I am not sure how far it went as far as getting his body prepared.

IMO he was better off staying retired...Age is a *****

 

Hmmmmm.... I think a bloated and out of shape Jeff could basically walk down Burns in 1907-circa........ Merely based on size and power......... Jeff dwarfed Burns.......... Burns would start fast, but tire late since he'd be on his toe's and using his legs to keep bay from Jeff....... I see Jeff catching Burns late in 1907 had the fight occurred........
:hat

MR.BILL

 

Well, in 1910, at age 35 and weighing 227 pounds come July 4, I gotta say that was amazing in itself........ Yes, Jeff was suckered into facing Johnson off the bat, but I am damn sure that Ol' Jeff could've beaten 90% of the rest of the lot that was considered contenders at that juncture.......... Despite getting KO'd by Johnson in Reno, Ol' Jeff did an amazing thing for 1910.......... In truth, he NEEDED a couple of tune-up fights of note prior to messin' with Jack Johnson........ Was Jeff gonna beat Johnson had he been tuned-up? NO!! But he'd have done better........

STILL! For a guy who was a fat slob of a referee in 1909 and over 300 pounds come New Years day 1910, he looked solid, fit and awesome for the photos' on the morning of July 4, 1910 at 227 pounds........ His team and camp was good....... However, he was facing the best fighter on the planet........ Jeff's skills and timing were faded in '10, but his power and determination was still there at age 35 and 227 pounds........ But fighting at age 35 after a 5 to 6 year layoff in 100 degree heat in Reno will hinder anyone coming back....... That there is no ****..............

MR.BILL

 

Marciano intended to come back against Ingo ,after the Swede had taken the title from Floyd , he gave a two page interview to Boxing Illustrated,I have it .
Asked about how he would cope with the Swede's power ,Rocky replied,"he knocked Patterson down multiple times,that in itself is a tip off he is not as big a puncher as he is credited with being,comparing his right to Louis's and mine is a joke".
The interviewer asked Marciano why he was coming back,did he need money?
Rocky said,"no, he was ok financially, he wanted to be the first man to regain the title,and asked," what about if Floyd beats you to it" Rocky replied,",then I will be the second".
Marciano gave up the rich food trained like a dog ,but could not recapture the condition of his title reign , and ,reluctantly gave up ideas of a come back.
He made a statement ,"I couldn't get into the sort of shape I would want to be in to try and regain,my title."

Later, Rocky said ,a comeback against Liston was raised but",this time I wasn't tempted ,I knew I was too old".
Marciano retired because he had begun to weary of the monk like training he had to put himself through,a recurring back injury ,and because he discovered Weill had been skimming off the top.And, because there was no one really left to fight ,"I would have had to wait a year for Patterson".

 

Yes but this was against Rocky ? How did the blown up, hopelessly outclassed former middlweight take flush bomb after bomb from Marciano before finally collasping from an accumulation in nine rounds? The man was a punching bag. Where was the one punch power that belongs with Tua, Shavers, Foreman ? Can someone pick a fight from each where they teed off on a hopelessly outclassed opponent, round after round, without being able to stop them ?

 

I agree with he grant on that one.