Jack Dempsey Vs Joe Louis

Christ! this is a tough one to call. The one thing I will say with confidence is this, this fight does not go the distance! Both men punched with power, enough to take the other one out. I think what decides this fireworks display is the chin. The question that remains then is this...who had the better chin? When you look at it this way then the answer is Dempsey. Joe was stopped by Schmeling, decked by Galento, hurt by Mauriello and Baer(Buddy) and dropped several times by Walcott. Now if those men could either stop or drop Louis, what do you think Dempsey could do to him? Both had equal firepower but Dempsey had an iron chin compared to Louis's wooden one. Case closed.

 

Funny thing I had a dreem that I was watching Dempsey and Louis fight. Louis won by knock out but I don't rember what round. Dempsey tid get some good shots in. The most lasting image that sticks out was a physcialy beat, victorious Louis resting on the ropes with a blood around his eye.
If my dream is any indaction Joe Louis would ko Jack Dempsey in a very exciting and fan frendly fight:bbb

 

Where has Dempsey-Flynn I been documented as a staged performance?
I've seen some indications but never clear evidence.
It sounds to me like Dempsey gets a free pass here for what may well be an early KO loss, just like he seems to get a free pass for being "pushed" out of the ring, where he should have been disqualified.

 

I favor Louis as the most complete fighter and the better combo puncher but Dempsey had the power to hurt you at any time, I have to say Joe by late stop or UD but there will a few scares for Joe and I dont discount a shootout with both men down and worn by the 8th 9th round

 

It wouldn't go well for Dempsey. Louis is too fast and powerful.

 

I dont believe Louie to be either faster or more powerful than Dempsey.
Dempsey moved like a big cat to Joe's slower moveing shuffle. Strength wise I see Jack being the stronger of the two.

 

I see what you're saying - but the real question is can Louis' handspeed & reflexes deal with a fast Dempsey who is rushing in? I think he can. Maybe Dempsey can get inside with his speed & avoid a Louis' straight right, crowd him, and do damage - but I wouldn't put money on it.

 

At Dempsey's 1920 draft evasion trial, courtroom testimony was given and accepted under oath that Dempsey's camp accepted $500.00 to throw the first encounter with Flynn. That it was a fixed outcome was openly expressed by reporters present at the time, and Dempsey's ex-wife Maxine was the primary witness at his draft evasion trial to confirm this. The fix was in, just as Jake LaMotta testified before the United States Congress that the fix was in for him against Billy Fox.

Staged performances are part and parcel of boxing lore, but the difference in Flynn/Dempsey I, and LaMotta/Fox, is legally binding testimony under oath.

 

Why did they come to the subject of that fight at the Draft evasion trial?

And the difference between LaMotta-Fox and Dempsey-Flynn is that LaMotta never made a mystery about it; he admitted the dive.
As far as i know, Dempsey always denied it. If it was already settled in court, why should he deny it? I don't know how much stock to put in the ex-wife's opinion, either. I've seen ex-wives claim things much further from the truth when it comes to their husband, combined to a courtroom.

 

Both men have fast hands and a lot of power. After watching all of their films, I do believe Dempsey had far better footwork, and defense. I also think JD had a slightly better chin, and was the better and more damaging clinch fighter. Dempsey worked his man over something fierce in the clinches, and wasn’t opposed to bending the rules. Louis looked lost in clinches, and could be bulled into the ropes. Louis said his weakness was men who crowded him. Dempsey put the pressure on his opponents.

Louis could be devastating too, but his stance and attack patterns were somewhat methodical. Louis was very average in clinch type fighting, and slow to change tactics. I’d pick Dempsey via early to mid round TKO with my reason being Louis low guard and workman like shuffling feet would cost him big time as Dempsey gets the angles and unloads. So I like Dempsey on styles, but Louis has great chance to win too. Louis was great at catching guys on their way in.

My $.02

 

I'd be curious to read the transcript of the courtroom testimony myself. The next time I'm at my local college library, I will comb the newspaper microfilm from 1920 to see if I can uncover anything concerning this. However, he was acquitted of draft evasion charges by being able to prove that he was the sole source of support for his large family in Colorado during World War I, which precluded his eligibility for conscription. If his brother Bernie had accepted $500.00 to throw in the towel against Flynn, that would certainly be an indicator of dire financial need.

At the same time, Maxine Cates was going through a bitter and very public divorce proceeding with Dempsey, and it may have been in that process that such sordid details of his years as a hobo and activities during the war came to light.

I have read that Dempsey took the dive after Flynn pushed his guard down with his right, and swung his left to knock Dempsey down, with Jack remaining on his back for 20 seconds. I have also read that Dempsey's brother Bernie threw in the towel after Dempsey had fallen down three times.

Well in any event, it was the one and only time in the 38 year old Flynn's 25 year, 116 match career that he was ever credited with a one round victory, and Dempsey's 19th and final match in Utah, after which he was banned from boxing by the authorities in that state for the remainder of his career. It was also Flynn's sixth and final match in Utah.

The following year, when they met again in Illinois, Dempsey dropped Flynn one minute into the match for a clean kayo win. There is readily available footage of Flynn against both Sam Langford and Jack Johnson. Does he look impressive enough to have legitimately destroyed Dempsey with a single punch in a single round? How does a 38 year old boxer, who has lost his previous two matches by early kayo, won only seven of his previous 30 matches dating back five years, and retires with a record of 46W+49L+20D, with 21 of his losses coming by knockout, wipe out the greatest first round knockout artist in HW championship history with a single punch for the only one round kayo win of his career?

As for Dempsey always denying that he took a dive, it must also be remembered that in his autobiography, he asserted specifically that it was his left hook to the head, and not his right hand below the beltline, which knocked out Jack Sharkey. But in the footage of that action, we see Sharkey's knees have buckled, and that he's already on the way down as he looks helplessly to the referee to rule a foul, then immediately clutches for his groin after he lands on the deck, face down. It was clearly Dempsey's body blow which paralyzed Sharkey so badly that he couldn't get up. For Dempsey to insist explicitly that his glancing hook to Sharkey's face was the knockout punch leads me to declare that, "the winner doth protests too much, methinks." In court, he referred to his first encounter with Fireman as "the Flynn affair."

Courtroom transcripts aside, how can a rationally logical case possibly be made that Flynn might have defeated Dempsey so quickly and easily in a competitive contest? What warped and twisted reasoning could possibly be employed to arrive at that conclusion? It defies good sense. (I won't say "common sense," because good sense isn't necessarily common.)

 

This is not the kind of fight that you wan't to bet a lot of money on.

Louis and Dempsey are the two most efficacious punchers that the heavyweight division has ever produced. They also both have a similar reach and are at home on the inside and outside. This means that neither man will be able to do his work outside of the others optimum punching zone.

I will pick Louis on the basis that he will be looking to catch Dempsey coming in and will probably be able to keep him on the front foot. To be honest though anything could happen.

 

I have always believed that in matchup between two deadly punchers the one with the better chin wins it somewhere down the line. Dempsey had the better chin in my opinion, and was probably the harder hitter of the two as well. I have never seen a shorter, deadlier hook to the face than the one Jack nailed Sharkey with in his one careless moment against Dempsey.

Now Joe had great, short handspeed, and was deadly accurate with his counters, but Dempsey`s bob n` weave and own punching power and accuracy would be something that Louis had never seen before. I firmly believe that Jack will take Joe`s best punches better than the other way around. Dempsey is faster from more angles and had the better mobility by far.

He has too much offensive power and diversity as well as one hell of a hard punch for Louis to just take, get back up and win by KO. I think Dempsey`s better chin, mobility, defence and footwork will see him beating Louis. Joe`s lack of footwork and methodical approach, and the fact I think he is easier to hit than Jack will see him get tagged clean, hard and very often for an early KO, say sometime before the 5th.

But what a fight while it lasts!!

 

Why is everyone saying that Dempsey had a better defense than Louis? He held his hands lower, and bobbing and weaving will get you caught sooner or later. Also people keep talking about Louis' suceptibility to a right hand, but what about Dempsey? He was more vulverable to a right smash than Louis was. Watch the Carpentier fight when Dempsey was at his peak. Georges cracked him with that right many times. Louis has the faster hands and more power. Louis has about 15-20 lbs on Dempsey as well, so Louis has to be considered here. Dempsey does have the better chin, but Joe also has the tighter defense, and also the stylistic advantage, so Dempsey is going to get hit more than Louis. Jack's footspeed is better, but Dempsey is not going to fight on the back foot here. He will be there to be hit, so footspeed is basically a non-factor. Louis also has waaaaaaaaay better stamina and can fight 20 rounds if he wanted to. The Manassa Mauler is one of my favorite fighters, but sooner or later, Dempsey will crumble from precision punching, and fatigue.

Joe Louis KO 5 Jack Dempsey:good