Jack Dempsey Vs Joe Louis

Rocky, well stated.:hi:

 

But the same could be said of Oliver McCall and Hasim Rahman against Lewis, Or Sanders, Purity and Brewster against Wlad. Gypsy Daniels against Schmelling etc. Strange and unexplained results are common, not uncommon. Flynn was not a totally hopeless case, and while an unlikely result, it is not beyond the realms of possibility.

I know i have certainly read some very detailed descriptions of the KO. It is something we never will really know for sure.

 

A temple shot from the most feather fisted puncher can knock out the most iron-chinned fighter if it lands just right. Just look at Ottke-Mundine for a perfect example. 999 times out of 1000, it wouldn't happen. But all it takes is one perfect shot like that to pull it off.

I don't think we'll ever know for sure either way, either. I view it as a fluke (but legit) knockout that isn't an indicator of Jack having a bad chin at all. Would it surprise me if some concrete evidence showed the fix was in? Absolutely not (that the fight was a fix that is, I'd be really shocked if anything concrete ever turned up). But I count the loss as a clean one.

 

What an interesting assortment of assumptions portrayed as fact ... Dempsey was faster, Dempsey hit harder, Dempsey had better balance, a noted dive v.s. Flynn ... what next, Dempsey's better left jab ? All this post proves is that spin is in here ... I love Dempsey but he has a puncher's chance at best against Joe and it better come early .. all the talk about the iron chin of Dempsey but of the eight filmed bouts of his that remain we see him badly hurt by Brennan, Carpentier, Firpo, Tunney twice and Sharkey ... All of them were able to land heavily on him and none of them were in the league of Joe Louis .... I think that if he did not catch Louis in the first two minutes and badly hurt him this dream fight becomes a massacre ...

 

he,do not UNDERESTIMATE the Jack Sharkey of the 1927 Dempsey fight.
It was a feather in Dempsey's cap that he was competitive with the prime Sharkey. That 25 year old Sharkey,was weakened and eventually knocked out by the 32 year old rusty shell of himself, Jack Dempsey, lest you forget.
By all accounts Dempsey had a great chin, and yes he was "rocked"
occasionally. What go for broke ,aggressive slugger isn't tagged occasionally
but in EIGHTY total bouts, Dempsey was kod only ONE time in a controversial
ko loss to Jim Flynn in 1917. I and many other boxing writers of the past suspected Dempsey took a dive in that bout...MANY. But even if this was a legit ko,Dempsey with his new manager Jack Kearns flattened Flynn ONE year later in ONE round. he, try to find another weakness of Dempsey, to justify your little respect for him, because Dempsey's one "ko" in 80 bouts, is a
positive for his rugged reputation...Can some posters find another "target"
other than Jack Dempsey ? I'm sure other old heavyweights were "rocked' a few times...:hi:

 

Burt, I am a huge Dempsey fan. However his "go for broke" style and his seeing red when hit hard are what would likely spell his disaster v.s. Louis. If he fought Joe like he did Firpo he'd have been iced ... Show me one fight where Dempsey mixed speed and boxing skills to pick spots and chop a guy down like a Duran in a DeJesus match up and I say maybe but it does not exist because he was not that type of fighter .. he was kill or be killed an I feel Joe had the better weapons, again baring a very early score which was quite possible ... To say he likely loses to Louis is no insult. Very few would not. I pick Louis as a fairly big favorite but Dempsey would be a live under dog ...

 

he, I AGREE with your LAST sentence. I think the Joe Louis of the Baer fight
is a favorite over any fighter, with the possible exception of Dempsey of the Fulton/Willard bouts. Styles, styles, styles...Cheers...

 

Prime Dempsey by KO....Jack's power vs Joe's chin...

 

Burt have you read 'The Fearless Harry Greb'? It quotes Dempsey as saying: "why would Greb put up his (MW) title against a black man?" He was referring to the fight when Greb lost his MW title to Flowers. He felt bad that Greb lost his title (Greb was distraught, and was seen teary-eyed in his corner) but revealed (and I quote) "a closely gaurded secret of his" in reference to Dempsey's views on black fighters. It was in the report of a newspaper writer I think.

Dempsey also shouted out that he would fight "any white man but not a black man" in the ring when Joe Jeanette jumped in the ring to challenge him. Make of that what you will, now these are only reports so it's impossible to tell if they were actually said, its not like its consistent with someone like Corbett who was very outspoken about how how felt about black fighters. Dempsey was friends with black fighters too and had them on his payroll. It could be that he felt black fighters should not fight for a title. maybe because of Johnson-Jeffries, who knows? But there are rumblings that Dempsey didnt agree with a black man fighting for a title in boxing.

 

B, yes i have "The Fearless Harry Greb" book at home...I once had "Give Him to the Angels", By James Fair, but fool that I am loaned it to a pal in 1949 or so, and Sayonara. Never saw the book again.
Who really knows Dempsey's true inner feelings of 85 years ago, about black fighters of that long ago period. What you privately think of me doesn't matter to me, as much as how you act towards me.
The fact is aside from all the hyperbole today by some posters who take
delight in lowering Dempsey's legacy,more so than ANY other fighter, the only
VIABLE black fighter Dempsey did not eventually hook-up whilst he was active [aside from his layoffs] was Harry Wills.Not to repeat ad-nauseum,they did sign for a bout, that was never consumated. McVey, Langford, Jeannette, were long in the tooth or retired during Dempsey's active reign.
Did Harry Wills deserve a title shot ? Darn right. Did Wills get a title shot ?No.
But Dempsey did fight John Lester Johnson in 1916, did employ black srarring partners as Big Bill Tate, George Godfrey,Indian Chief Turner during his title reign,and befriended his old foe JL Johnson, who broke 3 of Dempsey's ribs in their 1916 bout,when Turner was ailing in a nursing home. In his retirement Jack Dempsey was a true beloved gentleman, and as a fighter as good as they came... Cheers b....,.

 

Correction empsey befriended John Lester Johnson, when Johnson was ailing in a nursing home ...

 

Sharkey wasn't weakened! He was dominating jack dempsey, outboxing him and winning nearly every round. Don't give me that crap about dempsey giving Sharkey a body beating, because he wasn't winning any rounds! Dempsey beat him by cheating, pulling an Andrew Golota and uppercuting him in the balls. Dempsey should have been DQed on the spot!

Very controversial win

 

B.S. I have watched that film dozens of times over the years, every shot on film Dempsey landed was NOWHERE NEAR the OBVIOUS LOW pounches Golata landed. The consensus by reporters who witnessed the bout, were that they were "borderline" at WORST. Besides was the referee BLIND, PAID OFF or was he correct in not once disqualifying Dempsey ? You and your band of
Dempsey haters, give the benefit of the doubt to the referee who wasted many seconds,in the Long Count affair in the Tunney bout, telling Dempsey to go to a neutral corner,after flooring Tunney, BEFORE the ref STARTED the COUNT,allowing Tunney maybe 17 seconds to clear his head, whilst in the LAST Round of the fight Tunney dropped the 32 year old Dempsey, and referee Barry, IMMEDIATELY STARTED THE COUNT, WHILE TUNNEY HOVERED OVER DEMPSEY ,not ONCE directing Tunney to a neutral corner...Was that FAIR ? Darn it, U know the answer !
In the Sharkey/ Dempsey fight, after the bell rung, ending the round ,Sharkey
deliberately rapped Dempsey in the head as Dempsey, hands at his side,
headed to his corner...Dempsey didn't complain , because much to your chagrine, the Manassa Mauler was a fighter, who asked no quarter, and gave no quarter.
Finally : If the ref deemed it right to allow Tunney 17-or so seconds,before
Tunney got off the canvas. If the ref deemed it right,to start counting while Tunney was standing over Dempsey,not telling Gene to go to a neutral corner
in the last round, and made Tunney a new champion in 1926 officially.
It is just as correct officially, when the referee DEEMED that Dempsey KOD
Jack Sharkey in July, 1927...You can't have it BOTH WAY'S...Cheers...

 

What are the chances of getting Jack Dempsey to sign up for a fight against an elite black fight? Those type were known to give him the heebie jeebies,ya know.

 

No doubt controversial but I have also watched the entire fight many times and Dempsey was in the fight tooth and nail by the middle rounds ... He was giving as good as he took and who knows how it would have ended ...