jack dempsey vs ken norton...

So do you totally discount those sports writers ,trainers etc ,that have the benefit of having seen both fighters in the flesh and , in action, in the ring?

 

How about the sportswriters and trainers that had seen both , men such as Arcel ,Fleischer etc?

 

Roly poly?

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Are you sure you are not getting mixed up with this guy Suzie?

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When Heeney challenged Tunney he was rated no 4 having just beaten the no 7 rated fighter Jack Delaney, drawn with the no 3 Jack Sharkey,and beaten the no 5 Risko.

He earned his shot.


Godfrey was rated no 9.
Godfrey had lost to Risko a month previously ,and would lose to the then unrated Larry Gains a couple of weeks after the Tunney Heeney fight , losing his "Coloured Heavyweight Title".
NB Godfrey was 6' 3"

 

I don't need to take on board what they said or discount them because I can see both men easily at the click of the button anytime I want to and make my own mind up about them. I can read up about them, their opponents damn near anything. I don't need a writer, sports historian, eye witness, fighter or anybody to tell me how to feel about a fighter when I can make my own mind up. I'm a fan of Gene Tunney but do i need to listen and take on board when he said Dempsey would flatten Walcott, Charles and Marciano all in the same night in the same ring? Hell no.

It's nice to hear what they have to say in respect to fighters and sometimes can provide some true insight but doesn't mean I need to accept what they had to say especially when it came down to who would win A or B, who was greater A or B. The very nature of such questions means it's impossible for it not to be bias.


Edit: saw your other post...Fleischer? I mean c'mon can you name someone more bias than he is?

 

Physiques aside

Cockell > Heeney

 

How about Ray Arcel? I don't say Dempsey beats all those guys on the same night , I say those that saw them fight, picked Dempsey to beat Marciano.
I've no problem with any one disagreeing with that.

 

Heeney has better scalps on his record.

And it wasn't me who brought up physiques ,it was Suzie.As though height and muscular development must equate into talent.:huh

 

Off the top of my head there is a filmed interview with Ray Arcel . Fleischer we know picked Dempsey over Marciano.

Dempsey incidentally picked Marciano as the hardest puncher in a face off with Fleischer,who had chosen Jack.If I have time, I'll look up some 50's Ring mags.


I DO LIKE A PRIMARY SOURCE.

 

Be gone from this here thread troll.

 

Admittedly don't know much about Heeney, could you provide some detail on his better scalps?

I know Cockell has alot of used up fighters in his career but they were still of some quality like Mattews x3, Farr, Lastarza, Marshall. Was the British and Commonwealth Light Heavy and Heavyweight champ yada yada.

 

Like I said I enjoy reading what they have to say in regards to fighters but don't need to agree or take on board. Lou Duva a great trainer and manager said Rocky Marciano was the greatest heavyweight champ ever, i'm a big Marciano fan and I wouldn't even say that. Joe Louis almost always picked Ali to lose in his earlier fights. Just because they have a position on something doesn't mean I need to adopt it no matter their credentials.

I know where your coming from your wondering why despite so many (fighters, writers, historians) picking Dempsey over Marciano I refuse to subscribe to that position. I've said because I can make my own mind up based on what I see and what I know, much like them (although not with the same eye witness exp.). For me them rating Dempsey over Marciano, is like the previous generation of writers puttign Jeffries over Johnson or refusing to acknowledge Langford's greatness etc.

 

I pick Dempsey over Marciano because ,imo, he does just about everything better than Rocky.

You don't have to adopt their views , but surely they are worthy of consideration?
Joe Louis couldnt pick his nose ,let alone a winning fighter, he was almost as bad as Jim Corbett for getting it wrong. However, when a guy like Eddie Futch states Johnson, Louis ,and Ali are the best 3 heavyweights ever, I have to give that due respect..