I would say it is astonishing that you make such a claim as if you have very punch they both threw on film but this sort of comment is you on this forum ...
It is an amazing march up .. always has been .. Dempsey is more skilled but this will not come down to skill .. I just somehow see Rocky laying one on him early and Jack not recovering ... if Dempsey went balls to the wall and slugged it out from the first second I just see Rocky cracking him one ...
Do you agree Rocky of the Layne fight 51 matches up better against Dempsey than the 55 version who fought Moore?
Doubtful. This fight woudl go some rounds and even those picking Marciano agree that he would probably wear Dempsey down as the fight goes on. Between the two Dempsey was the faster starter and the more explosive puncher early.
I think Jack would get the better of the first 2 rounds, but Marciano would be forced to, and would, warm up quickly and start getting the better of the exchanges. By the 5th/6th round Marciano would be hurting Jack and finished him a round or two later. I just see the stronger, harder hitting Marciano breaking down the equally tough Jack with his shorter and more precise shots. Also, when it comes to 2 best weapons (Jack's left hook vs Rocky's right), I will usually pick the punch that is straighter and shorter, and Marciano's right would be shooting inside Dempsey's hook and would land with enough force to offset the hook.
Its questionable whether Marciano hit harder than Dempsey. Im not sure he did. Who hit harder probably wont be the deciding factor anyway. It would come down to who can deliver the cleaner shots and who is more accuarate with their power shots.The quicker hands. Conditioning could be a big factor as well. Who hits harder? Its marginal.
I see it pretty much like this, conditioning will be a MAJOR factor as slugging is extremely taxing on the gas tank. Due to the uncomprimising, kill or be killed nature of both fighters once they get into it they won't stop and the person who will be landing the harder more effective punches, more often, while simaltaneously absorbing the punishment better will be the last one standing and for me this is Rocky. Dempsey's speed and fast starting nature will provide problems tho.
Even though I posted Tommy Gibbons comments about being able to see Dempsey's punches coming, there's also a lot to what you're saying. Against Willard, Dempsey doesn't go big with his punches until just before the third knockdown. Also, if you were someone who Dempsey could hit with rising punches -- Firpo, or Sharkey when he addressed the referee -- Dempsey could generate a lot of in-your-face power. I should say, also, that though Gibbons finished on his feet vs. Dempsey, he was quite wobbly. Dempsey had mixed success trying to KO Gibbons, then at round six he went swarmmer for the rest of the fight; I'm not sure if Gibbons goes the full 15 if Dempsey had infought from the start.
Is Dempsey allowed to use his loaded gloves? If so would be a close fight that could go either way. I see Marciano wearing him down and stopping him late
Speed would be the key......IMO Dempsey had faster hands and faster feet.....hard fight to call though..
Madcapmaxie, A few points and comments if I may. Firpo rushed Dempsey, and he was floored at least five times in the first round, correct? Wills and Willard could both hit, yet they could not dent Firpo. Dempsey destroyed Firpo in two rounds. Firpo likely had a better chin than any ranked contender Rocky beat. If Rocky swings away, he’s going to get caught coming in, which in boxing increases the concussive force of the blow. So Dempsey has the option of catching Rocky on the way in / beating him to the punch, or moving and circling and using his range. Who says Rocky had the better chin? The truth is chins are best tested when they are hit. The two best punchers Rocky faced ( Walcott and Moore ) floored him. Charles stunned Rocky, and according to the press, so did a defensive minded light hitter in Lowry. Dempsey clearly hits harder than all of the guys that fought Rocky and hurt him or floored him. Rocky was the better puncher? Hard to say. It took Rocky a little over 9 rounds on average to win his title matches. It’s not like Rocky hit like Foreman, Tyson or Wlad. If he did, he would have ended his matches soon as his bombs landed. Finally, there were many who saw both Dempsey and Rocky. How come almost everyone of the time rated Dempsey higher?
Yes, and Wlad definitely stopped Rahman as soon as he landed. Oh, no, it took him a few rounds and a few knockdowns. Those that were old enough to see both rated Denosey higher because he reminded them of their youth.
Wlad does not press the action and go for the KO as often as Marciano did. He fights at a measured pace. Wlad and Rocky are completely different fighters. When Wlad fought an older crustier in Mormeck, he crushed him after landing a few hard blows. Put Wlad in there with slightly to past their prime older cruisers, give him lighter gloves, and he blows out the Charles or Moore that Rocky fought. Sports writers of the 20's who lived to see Marciano would not rank Schemling, Jack Sharkey, or Braddock over Marciano would they? Your allegation that people always side with fighters of their youth is not a given. If you read the papers of the time, the consensus was Rocky was a solid champion, but clearly not as good as a few before him.
