I don't agree that Marciano was more consistant than Dempsey.From1918 until1926 Dempsey was undefeated that's 8 years Dempsey was fighting for money as a skinny teenager Marciano's entire pro career was only 7 years and he didn't turn pro till he was a mature man of 23. Dempsey was put in with whomever his managers could get. Marciano had both the luxury of having a well connected manager and one who was also the Matchmaker of the IBC which controlled MSG and other major venues, this meant they could place Marciano where and when they wanted and he was matched very conservatively .Marciano also had the assistance of an ATG trainer in Goldman. Marciano was in his share of less than impressive fights. Against: Pretzie Haft Savold Lowry Lastarza1 And many thought both Lowry and Lastarza were robbed in their first fights with him. The first Lowry fight has led to speculation that Lowry had eased up when in the lead,so as not to upset the Marciano roller coaster. I've no idea if there is any substance to this. Cuts nearly stopped both the Simmons and Charles fights, today they would have been stopped . Dempsey was always gracious when referring to other fighters.he said Jeffries would probably have beaten him. Sam Langford who saw them both disagreed . Dempsey ko'd plenty of guys with a couple of punches how many we will never know. In a Ring magazine poll of writers to find the greatest heavyweight puncher Dempsey came out on top. Dempsey voted for Marciano, he was hardly likely to vote for himself was he?
Flynn was 37, Dempsey 22 . I wonder what Marciano's record would have looked like had he been fighting as a hungry teenager as Dempsey was? Had a succession of managers in his early years. No trainer in his early years. Not been boxing under the umbrella of the IBC and managed by the matchmaker of that organization who in turn was controlled by Frankie Carbo. NB Dempsey lost to Flynn 52-22-16 in his 34th fight. Flynn had: Beaten Jack Twin Sullivan and drawn with him twice. Beaten Dave Barry Gone 11rds With Jack Johnson Beaten and drawn with Billy Papke Fought Tommy Burns for the title Kod George Gardner Beaten Tony Ross Kod Bill Squires Beaten Tony Caponi x2 Drawn with Jim Coffey Drawn with Jack Dillon kod Al Norton Beaten Al Kaufman Fought Johnson for the title Beaten Carl Morris Beaten Sam Langford Marciano's 34th fight was against Harold Mitchell 3-13-3 Mitchell had lost his previous 7 fights and not won any of his last 11. His career stats are 22 fights won 3 . Spot the difference?
Marciano had the better career and I would rate him higher. Its beyond me though how anyone can fail to see the huge stylistic advantage for Dempsey. Rocky will come at him and Dempsey will hit him. He was a much faster and more accurate puncher, and would land before Rocky could get going. It is of course possible that Rocky could weather the storm, its just not very likely. I mean, who ever did? I give Charles and Walcott a much better chance at beating Dempsey.
Dempsey was more explosive out of the blocks and got he job done early Marciano ground down his opponents.
The underlined is meaning less because it encompasses all weights... You keep harping on about the Flynn ko in Dempsey's 34th fight, read my other post comparing Flynn to Harold Mitchell who was Marciano's 34th opponent.:yep Marciano doubled up by a right under the heart against Walcott in the 11th round. Marciano getting up off the floor against Old Archie and walking towards the ropes. You talk about will to win, Dempsey was floored by Sudenberg 9 times in the first round but Dempsey got up and went the distance to a draw decision. Dempsey was knocked right out of the ring against Firpo tearing his **** open, and hurting his back and shoulder , but he got back in there, dropped Firpo multiple times and kod him . Dempsey was a skinny teenager without a trainer or manager,fighting all comers in bars for, pass the hat dinner money, yet you say he was afraid to fight black guys? That''s a very strange kind of coward?:huh It never happened to Marciano because he didn't even turn pro till he was 23 years oldand the guy had got for his 34th fight has a record of 22 fights won3! Had lost his last 7, and not won one of his last11! Dempsey was a road warrior, fighting in about 17 different states without the benefit of regular training or diet. Dempsey's 36th fight was against Willie Meehan 69-11-29 Meehan has wins over: Smith Mantell Dillon Clark Langford And a draw with Miske. Marciano's 36th fight was against Willis Applegate who had fought just twice in the previous 2 years. Applegate was coming in with 5 consecutive loss behind him and his win total in 29 fights is 12 . He never beat anyone worth talking about.Applegate went the distance without being floored This was a bruising, crowd-pleasing battle. Marciano won handily enough but failed to even knock down his opponent, who had fought only twice in the previous two years. Applegate's best round was the third, which the referee also took from Marciano because of a low punch. Red landed plenty of good punches, typically in the early parts of rounds, but Marciano almost always came back later to take the play away. Marciano's best round was the sixth. The attendance was 4167 and the gross gate was $7,6l6 Marciano had 32 of his 49 bouts in ,or near his home base. In comparison to Dempsey's early years he was cosseted and protected. You might want to ponder what Marciano's stats would have looked like had he been fighting under the same conditions as Dempsey and from the same age..:think
wow, I feel I am in the presence of two masters reading Suzie and Mcvey :thumbsup I cannot believe how long you two have battled on this subject :admin well done to the both of you :bbb:bbb Anyway we could call it a tie ?
Very good post mcvey Seems like even greats like Marciano had some opponents that terry lawless would of accepted for frank Bruno
No not a wow mcvey lawless would of been happy to book Applegate for a match with Bruno and the press afterwards would of been killing the Bruno camp for their choice of opponent
Marciano 's 40th opponent was Gino Buonvino who had been ko'd in 1 round by Joe Baksi in his last fight and Lee Savold in 1 rd earlier. Buonvino had already been stopped by Rocky and had won just 2 of his last 8 fights. Buonvino had 2 more fights and retired with a 48 fight record with 24 wins on it and 6 ko losses. Yet he was a credible opponent for 40-0 Rocky?:think This content is protected Turns out Buonvino hurt Marciano with a right despite claims that Marciano was never hurt . Buonvino has a 10% ko record with 5 stoppages, 2 over super middles , 1 over a guy with a 2-13-1 record, 1 on a cut eye, and 1 over a LHVY.
