Jack Dempsey vs Sonny Liston

The Firpo/Liston comparison holds no water. Firpo might be the worst heavy challenger ever filmed. Liston routinely makes the Top 10 list of heavies. They are night and day on film and in accomplishments.

 

They are similar in size and possibly strength and power was the point the other point is we see what kind of metal Dempsey was made of when hit by a modern sized heavyweight....I don't think and this is according to Dempsey and those who trained with, fought against and knew him throughout Dempsey cared who had hit him he was a natural killer in the ring and it showed in his resolve in his prime. We saw Liston overpower alot of similar sized heavies but noone of the Dempsey caliber but we did see his metal when Ali was pasting him in the first fight.....just to add additonal to my thinking and what I would see if I could match these two and the prediction I would have.

 

Liston fought all of his best opposition between '60 and '70. At some point we're going to have to say "Okay this is what he showed us" rather than constantly making the excuse that he was past prime in his 30s.

Tunney was a harder opponent for 32 year old Dempsey than Ali was for mid 30s Liston if we're being honest here. Liston had pretty good longevity. Probably because he never fought anyone that did enough damage to him or put him in a war that would take something from him in future fights.

 

aye but neither faced the force of nature opostie.

 

Bit like Earnie Shavers, then? As a young man he worked in the field tossing bales of hay. Got his strength from daily life rather than going to the gym. Farmer strong, eh? I like it.

 

Agreed....good post...Dempsey was a class higher than Liston....Liston too slow defensively and offensively for Dempsey...I'd be surprised Liston lasts very long

 

based on what is he a class higher than Liston?

 

Firpo was a bumbling brawler who lacked speed, balance and coordination and who was too cheap to hire a trainer. His greatest pelts were a 42 year old Jess Willard and a 185 pound Weinert who went on to beat him later. Rickard almost broke his own spine patting himself on the back for the task of making this guy seem credible.

Liston KO'd Williams (x2), Foley, Patterson (x2), Valdes, De John and many decent B-level types across two eras.

Again, in blowing away Patterson, Lison beat a roughly similar fighter as Dempsey, style-wise, size-wise, skill-wise, speed-wise, and dare I say, power-wise. Dempsey has nothing equivalent to Liston on his resume. Firpo was a hype job who had zero resume and zero of the athleticism of Liston.

 

100% would agree he isn't anyone to model as a fighter but he is a tad bit underrated in the skills department. Just a tad. He was plain wild and 9/10 that wouldn't have worked but the Dempsey fight was the 1/10 times it did.

100% true. Firpo was a big punching slugger. The typical fighter the fans love. Very casual friendly.

Let's be realistic. DeJohn, Valdes, and Foley were mediocre. Williams and Patterson were good scalps indeed. Williams a little overrated.

Dempsey threw much more body shots and had a much more physical style. Patterson boxed behind the jab quite frequently and operated from the outside often. Dempsey on the other hand was constantly putting on the pressure. I agree Patterson's left hook probably had as much power as any heavyweights big punch for that matter but Dempsey's was much more effective. Dempsey was much more two fisted as well. He was just as dangerous with the right as he was with the left. More than a left hooker like Patterson which by default gives him a much more varied arsenal and makes him more dangerous.

These two guys aren't as similar as you think. Patterson was almost always fighting as the shorter man, Dempsey wasn't. In fact he was just as tall and wide as Liston. Just less muscle.

 

Look I am not comparing Firpo to Liston in any way except for him being a much bigger man and being powerful which he was......but you have got to be kidding in comparing the naturally bigger, stronger and more powerful Dempsey to Patterson a man who was the 156lb representative in the 1952 Olympics......the only thing they had in common was speed Dempsey was a killer and Patterson was not. Dempsey would not be petrified with fear like Patterson was. Dempsey was a taller leaner harder man than Patterson mentally yes Patterson was better schooled in some ways but he was no Dempsey.

 

I definitely do not think Dempsey is a class higher than Liston either.. People seem to easily forget the short work he made out of Patterson twice and Williams twice. Patterson didn't have fast hands and great movement in his career?? Williams didn't have a powerful shot? Let's be real here, these 2 are on the same level and can be argued either way to win this fight

 

Floyd was 17 in 1952 and as a pro that year weighed 164.

How much did Kid Blackie weigh in 1912? Pretty sure about the same or less.

And its a lot easier to not be petrified against Brennan and Carpentier than it is against Liston.

 

You dont just become strong thru a tough life and youth, you can become rawhide tough from repeated physical poundings throughout life and are able to block the pain to do your job. Yes, I know EXACTLY what you mean. I think Liston and Dempsey were thus. MARCIANO also. And in many many ways Frazier. Great observation. Sorry it took so long to reply.

 

Agreed, cause he's not a level higher

 

Too funny!!!