Jack Dempsey vs. Wladimir Klitschko

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…..
America’s birthday is imminent, but the prospect of an American heavyweight champion is not. The superpower on the throne comes out of Eastern Europe in the form of Wladimir Klitschko. He is the same size as Jess Willard, with a similar conservative fighting style and a nonviolent disposition. Nevertheless, since 2006 he has dominated freedom-loving Chris Byrd, Calvin Brock, Ray Austin, Lamon Brewster, Tony Thompson, and Hasim Rahman, stopping them all.


Only Brewster had success against Wlad, and only in their first fight where he was losing right up to the moment he landed a left hook, right cross, left hook combination that turned Wlad’s legs to lokshyna.


Since then, Wladimir Klitschko’s fights have been glorified sparring sessions. He is typically fought from the wrong range by second-rate guys that have no answers for the jab, who are content to allow him to play tyrant and dictate everything that goes on. American heavyweights, once hailed the world for fire-breathing ferocity, seem to be ailing from acute testosterone deficiency. They get an opportunity of a lifetime, a chance to become a heavyweight champion, and then spend rounds passively looking for proof that they are outgunned by Wlad. Boxing fans watch reruns of masochism evolving into surrender.

 

Whatever happened to the motto “don’t tread on me”?


American heavyweights are indeed outgunned –no less than the citizen-soldiers at Breeds Hill or Saratoga. No less than Jack Dempsey. But neither those patriots nor the Manassa Mauler behaved as if their downfall was written in the heavens. No. They rewrote the script: shake your fist at the giant and blast away until you stand on his collapsed frame, and then watch your reputation ascend to the stars.


Klitschko may seem like an empire unto himself but he is no more unbeatable than Jess Willard was ninety years ago.


Trainer Manny Steward, the Kronk guru who has trained over two dozen champions in a career spanning over thirty years, develops ring technicians. Klitschko, despite what some commentators will have you believe, is not a technician in the strict sense of the word. Steward has given him simple strategies which he follows to the letter but he has not progressed as a technician. He does a few things well, but where is the counterpunching skill, infighting, combination punching, body punching, or serious defensive techniques? Wlad has a jab that is sometimes pawing but that can also be of the Liston, lamp post type. He has a hard right and a devastating left hook. His defense is limited to clinches and retreats: That’s more or less the extent of his repertoire. It is certainly true that he hasn’t had a compelling need to demonstrate other skills, but is that proof positive that his repertoire is any more extensive than we’ve seen? Unlikely. Boxers cannot hide what and who they are. What you see is the naked truth. Klitschko has a few tools in his tool box that he uses very well. It’s his size that presents such problems.


More importantly than what’s under the hood is the psychology of who’s driving. Wlad has been stopped three times. Ross Purrity, Corrie Sanders, and Lamon Brewster fought him aggressively and were able to bounce shots off of his head until something inside Wlad broke. When dealing with sustained aggression, Wlad seems to panic. When hurt, Wlad has been prone to come apart.

 

Lamon Brewster did several things in his first meeting with Klitschko that mirrored what Jack Dempsey did against Willard. He bobbed and weaved, slipped the jab, applied pressure, closed the distance quickly when Wlad was in retreat, and punched in combination. Wlad didn’t punch himself out as claimed –he was taken completely out of his comfort zone and overwhelmed. It was anxiety that exhausted him.

Unfortunately for the man known as “Relentless”, the second time he fought Wlad he looked like he was standing in line at a bakery waiting for cherry pies –and he got dozens of them in the form of left jabs.

That part of the script can be rewritten too. “Once in a while,” Jess Willard admitted after the Dempsey fight, “I felt my head clearing and instinctively stuck out my long left which had served so well in previous fights. When I saw my opponent slipping easily past that protection, I realized that unless I landed a lucky blow, I was sure to lose.”

Giants tend to develop a fairly simple, sedated style that is built around physical control of their opponent. Like the Jess jab, the Wlad jab is the primary instrument of oppression. A nervous jabbing contest may ensue that the smaller man can never win, and once lulled by the hypnotic “tit-for-tat”, Wlad will suddenly commit to a right, and then it’s “tit-for-splat”. Most of the hooks Wlad throws are sweeping hooks to force his man to stay in front of him. When the opponent gets too close for comfort, Wlad clinches and leans on him. It’s all about control. He’s hoping to wear the opponent out or convince him that it is futile to resist domination. Trainers take note: Wlad is not dangerous when his opponent is. He doesn’t punch when he is being punched. This is not only a glimpse into an elemental weakness; it is a key to victory.

Wlad is cautious to a fault. He fights like a man carrying a priceless vase across a mine field, only the vase is his chin and the mine field has been a meadow. The key is to take the control away from him by detonating fireworks under his nose.

The key is to fight him like John Paul Jones would. With his ship shattered and sinking under the superior firepower of the British frigate Serapis and his crew decimated, Jones was asked by the British captain if he would surrender. Jones hollered “I have not yet begun to fight!” One of his grenades flew into the main deck battery of the larger ship, ignited the casks of gunpowder, and the Serapis soon surrendered to the Americans.


Jack Dempsey’s grenades were no less deliberately launched than those of John Paul Jones. He fought with the savagery of a strategist. The film confirms that the only time he was at Willard’s preferred range was when he was passing through to the inside –to the main deck battery if you will. Dempsey was either outside of Willard’s reach or inside of his reach, he never stayed where Willard could hit him and he couldn’t hit Willard. To get close, he would get low and shoot in behind hard, slashing punches that forced the larger man on the defensive. This allowed Dempsey to take momentary advantage and exploit it with combinations. An off-balance giant is a vulnerable giant.

Importantly, Dempsey punched with maximum leverage. He had disdain for anything less:

“I blasted him into helplessness by using my exploding fast-moving body-weight against him.”

He blasted him into helplessness and upheld the great American tradition of beating the odds.

 

How can I follow the above.?
Answer- I can't!

 

Stonehands,

Why the Hell should Wlad, a 6'6 boxer, do infighting? That's basically going over to your opponent and handing him all your advantages on a platter. To extrude your analogies, should the Germans at Ohama Beach have left their bunkers and high terrain positions and gone down to the beach so they could do some more infighting?

And what are these "serious defensive techniques?" His unserious (?) defence already steers him clear of just about any offense coming his way.

 

This is a classic matchup between a swarmer and an outside boxer. As we all know, that favours the swarmer significantly. Outside fighters are very uncomfortable against a pressure opponent who can use good footwork and defence to slip the jab and get inside repeatedly. Physical advantages like reach and height are not much use and arguably a disadvantage for inside fighting, ditto for a good jab and a good right hand.

Let's look at the advantages and disadvantages for each fighter.

Wlad - Pros: good jab, strong right hand, long reach, tall, big, powerful, good boxing technique. Cons: glass jaw, poor defence, big target, plodding footwork, can't body punch or fight inside very well, tends to fold under pressure.

Dempsey: Pros: good footwork, effective at cutting off the ring, KO power in both hands, great inside fighting skills, fast hands, quite evasive with head and foot movement, mentally tough, aggressive finisher. Cons: limited size and reach, weak jab, poor outside fighting skills, dentable chin, technique a bit limited.

If you compare those, the matchups are not good for Wlad. Plodding footwork vs a master at getting inside and cutting off the ring. Weak chin vs a KO artist. Poor defence and head movement versus someone with lightning fast hands. Poor inside fighting vs a dangerous inside fighter. Wlad's advantages are based on outside fighting yet he lacks the footwork and mobility to dictate range against a mobile swarmer like Jack. And finally, when the going gets tough, you would favour Dempsey to be tough enough to pull through, whereas we all know Wlad tends to panic and fold when in trouble.

In the past, Wlad had nightmares against Sanders - a fighter with good power and great hand speed. Dempsey with great handspeed and power is liable to do the same, arguably more so since he's much more aggressive and mobile than the old, out of shape Sanders was.

Wlad needs to keep this a long range fight to win it, yet he has almost no hope of doing so in any round, and on the inside his vulnerabilities of fragile chin, mental weakness under pressure, and poor defence are tailor made for Dempseys advantages of fast hands, KO power, relentless aggression and devastating finishing. The only way I see Dempsey losing is if the fight is in Germany and a bought-off home turf ref allows Wlad to turn it into a wrestling match and tie things up each time Dempsey comes inside. Doing an Akinwande is the only way Wlad survives beyond the middle rounds.

 

Wlad's ability to control a fight, and his jab which is arguably the greatest jab in HW history makes him far better than Williard. Let's not even get into the obvious athletic differences between the two because then it would just become apparent that they weren't in the same realm.

 

:rofl:rofl:roflBull**** as it is.

 

he has very good footwork and clinching.bad chin though
dempsey was out cold in round 1,so when wlad busts him up with that right hand he is out cold

 

The German war machine was a well-rounded one and could fight on almost any terrain -they strafed London from the air and then took out British warships from under water. See, adaptability.

Wlad has not demonstrated that he is well-rounded or adaptable, and that is the point.

Part of Bowe's mastery of a prime HW Holyfield was his infighting. Bowe outfought Holyfield inside -and demonstrated to all that Holyfield, despite that technical skill behind his attack, was neither the better warrior nor the better technician that night.

Lewis, who was never the technician that Bowe could be, nevertheless showed impressive skill at close range against Mercer. Now, your retort will surely point out that Steward came in to make it easier for Lewis by ad******g his style to a more basic, size-oriented one; and that both Bowe and Lewis could have had easier fights had they fought like Wlad.

--But I would point out to you a few things. First, Lewis's technique got stale because of Steward. And that fiasco of a fight between him and Vitali showed me how much Lewis's skill-set had deteriorated. Why? Because once Lewis no longer had the size advantage and had to rely on technical prowess, he was almost at a loss.

Second, I did not and do not insist that Wlad fight in a manner that will give up his advantages. However, he could afford to learn other aspects of boxing -you never know when you'll need them. He's lucky his level of comp is so mediocre. He's lucky Toledo Dempsey can't be reanimated.

"Steers him clear of just about any offense coming his way..." Any offense by whom?

I cannot remember seeing Wlad operate as a counterpuncher, punch with an opponent, make his opponent miss and throw a combination; I don't remember seeing Wlad weave under a hook or properly slip a right.

He fights like !#$% Frankenstein -are you impressed?

Lest you forget, credit is given to the giants' style in the essay because it is usually effective -but let's not pretend that Wlad is a technician.

He is effective against relatively unimpressive competition, sure, but simplistic nonetheless.

You seem to be insisting that I wave palm branches his way because of the many Ws on his record. I won't. That is not to say that he not a good champion and a difficult prospect to face for any man under 6'4. It is to say that I need to see much more to rank him higher -more technical skill and more impressive competition to begin with.

I'll illustrate the point: Manute Bol, RIP, stood 7'7 and could dunk a basketball. Wlad can keep mediocre opponents on the end of his telephone pole arms. Whoopdee-do. Julius Erving was a foot shorter and 36 years old when he dunked it on Bol in the playoffs. That's impressive. Dempsey ripping Willard to shreds despite a monstrous size differential -that's impressive.

What you do when you are overmatched, outgunned, or in real trouble -these are about the best measures of greatness. Dominance is too, to be sure. But then the biggest one by my standards is Experience.

One more analogy. I can't resist. I'm addicted. A cactus in a desert deserves little credit for being such as it is, where it is.

 

So is David Haye and Alexander Povetkin more impressive competition in your eyes?

 

eh.

 

Sorry let me correct myself:

Wlad has a granite chin (never been knocked down let alone KOd), untouchable Whitaker-like defence, is small and short, is known to dance around the ring like Ali, and his body attack is more relentless than Tyson or Frazier in their primes. He is the best heavyweight ever and would take out Ali, Louis, Lewis, Marciano and Dempsey in one night.

 

Have you watched much boxing? Young Ali has very good footwork. Sugar Ray Leonard has very good footwork. Wlad does not.