Jack Dempsey vs. Wladimir Klitschko

Amazing, I have the opposite view. Wlad's weakness is very a dynamic fast starting heavyweight with some range who can hit and take a good punch. That is Dempsey. I would pick Demspey at his best.

 

Look, we all know about Dempsey v.s. Fulton/Morris/Willard but more than likely none were as talented as Wlad. Dempsey has a shot at an early KO but if it is not done fast I do not see him lasting very long ...

 

That is one of the most ridiculous comparisons I have ever heard on these boards (and that is saying somethingatsch) you not seriously suggesting what Sanders handed Klit was anything compared to the Dempsey-Willard massacre!!?? What a joke come on let get back to reality on this board - do any of you actually watch these fights before coming out with these things - Sanders pulled off a good win but Dempsey damn near killed Willard - he looked like he'd been through a meat grinder!! Klit just looked stunned and embarrased because his crappy chin got found out in front of all the Klit-huggers - DEMPSEY WOULD ANNIHILATE KLIT - these days Willard wouldn't have been allowed to continue after the first knockdown and he had probably one of the best chins in history - Klit definately wouldn't Dempsey would blast him out a quick and all the Klit-huggers would have to face the truth :happy

 

Dempsey couldnt get past Tunneys jab if his life depended on it, Wlad has an equally fast jab with far more reach and height. People will point to Wlad being chinny, while ignoring Dempsey was equally chinny getting starched in the first and nearly knocked out by another unskilled slugger in Firpo. Then remember Dempseys competition was very weak and he avoided the best of his time.

Wlad by a domination before knocking Dempsey out in the mid rounds

 

Actually I just rewatched it after i wrote that. Klitchsko was knocked down 4 times, and he was reeling badly. It certainly did not look as vicious as what happened to Willard, so you are correct, but the point is that Sanders did continually rise in the face of being knocked down. Would he have done so as often dempsey? Probably not, but he was half way there. We know for sure that Willard doesnt cop what he did against Dempsey with a modern ref. That was the point on what i read. We dont know whether he would have kept getting up against Sanders or not, because the fight was stopped.

Interestingly about the Sanders Wlad fight, and it surpised me (i havent seen it for a long time) was the fact that Wlad actually did try to grab when he was hurt. I always remembered (wrongly) that Wlad had been more offensive in that fight, than what he currently is. I dont think that is correct. He tried to fight cautiously at a distance and clinch when he was hit, like he does now. I am not so certain that if Sanders (from this fight) were to fight him again now that the result would be any different.

And another thing while we are on the Willard comparisons, I also rewatched the first and last rounds of Sanders v Vitali. I have to say, Vitali in that first round was as pitiful and unskilled as anything Willard has ever done. His jab was absolutely nothing, really just a paw left hand arm grab or constant slap or tap. And his right hand most of the time was a mirror image of it most of the time. in fact at times, he through southpaw right hand arm jabs from an orthodox stance! Now if that isnt an example of amateurism, i dont know what is. He obviously must have got better throughout the fight (surely?) but there is no way in the world that his exhibition in that fight demonstrates anywhere near the skills of Willard, even at Willards worst filmed moments. I also would be stunned if the unfilmed Fulton was this bad technically. IN saying that, Vitali obviously has some size and awesome power and could still through some good punches but i dont believe anyone could watch that first round and say that Willard is less skilled. Sanders incidentally was no better. He was battered around at the end and while he was obviously worn out and was brave to keep trying to throw (and he did have a decent left hook) i cant believe that he had such little idea of how to clinch when hurt.

 

Dempsey had a good talent of punching in angles and was cat-like fast in his attack when given the snap-shot...even a rusty Dempsey did this in fight 2 vs a real mover in Tunney but Dempsey was a giant killer and loved a Big Target.

I am not sure who comes out on top but would not sell Jack short

 

Dempsey liked a slow unskilled target whether big or small. Its not like a 'big target' has a particularly bigger head thats easier to hit.

If Dempsey had fought someone like Harry Wills we may have an idea of how he'd match up with Wlad. C Class fighters like Willard/Firpo dnt count

 

This is a joke, right? I wouldn't pick one of these guys at these weights to do anything but fail mightily against a either Klitschko, Lewis... etc. Beating a thoroughly washed-up 40+ year old Golota or a coke-addled boozer old Cooney does not overly impress, sorry. And I didn't even think the 220 lb version of Haye beat the horrible Valuev.

Good Lord, your reach exceeds your grasp on this one.

 

Okay, So what Superheavyweight 6'5 plus 250+ pound heavyweight do you pick to beat Lennox Lewis, the Klitchskos or Riddick Bowe?

Valuev maybe? or perhaps Willard or Carnera?

 

By the way Seamus, what chance do you give the 190lb Cassius clay, who was just starting to hit his straps and emerge as a contender on the world stage?

 

(1) Does the referee let Dempsey stand over a fallen Wlad just in case Wlad goes down ?
(2) Which gloves do they use ?

But i have already voted anyway.

 

+1 (regarding the outer one)

 

As a heavyweight, no chance at all. Clay was full of holes up to and including the first Liston fight. He was still panicky and skittish but that fight was a transformation before our eyes, literally from boy to man... or better yet from boy to champion. Compare the 64 version to the 66 version and it's night and day. By the Williams and Terrell fights he is masterfully composed and in control, utilizing the talents he possessed earlier but in a thoughtful, intentional way.

By the way, history is full of more shitty super-heavies than good or great ones. My point is that the really good ones are very, very difficult to beat on a head to head basis.

 

Dempsey is the type of fighter to beat Wlad, but without the chin- and giving away over 50lbs in weight. Dempsey will move his head when he's on the outside, and Wlad will hold when he gets inside. Cagey (maybe boring) fight for the most part until some of Wlad's left hooks and straight rights find their mark

I always pick Wlad though