Jack Dempsey vs. Wladimir Klitschko

Valuev is probably a pretty good example against everyone he ever fought.

I think that Bowe Holyfield as everyone already stated was the best example.

Tyson-Douglas may be an example and so might Tyson McBride, although we all know the excuses for those.

 

No, I don't believe so. Not at least in the era of 1990-2004. We are definitely in a slump now, but these slumps have happened many times before. There's too much money to be made at the top. There will be another golden era.

 

Why dont you ask Mendoza how much a klit fan Ive been over the years, I'm known for hating them but I've come to accept how good they are over the years, Im simply an objective poster. Do you have Flyn in your top 10 ranking

Wills resume is far better than Dempseys. He won every round against Firpo when he was well past it, without been hurt, many consider it better than nearly being ko'd by Firpo as Dempsey was.

Jack Johnson wasnt in Dempseys era because he was frozen out by the racial supremacy of the time. Much the same as Wills and the rest. In what other era would a champion who lost his championship in controversal circumstances not get a return title shot?

The general concensus of this forum, based on newspaper reports, statements of the time, that the Flyn KO loss was legit. Then theres the Meehan losses

Dempsey was busy fighting Greb left overs in his title reign and reports state greb won their sparring sessions for what thats worth :deal

 

Addullah, Nice to hear from you even though we tend to disagree. You see the Jack Dempsey of the Tunney era, in your evaluation of Dempsey...While I see the Jack Dempsey of Jess Willard and before, who did the following...
1917 Arthur Pelkey 6.2-210lbs ko 1===Pelkey 17kos
1918 Carl Morris 6.4-235lbs====39kos
1918 Fred Fulton 6.4 225 lbs.====70kos
1918 Jess Willard 6.6 250lbs===35kos
These large men Jack Dempsey absolutely destroyed ,some in one round...
At that time Dempsey was called 'a man killer for good reason'...He was then described as having the speed of a welterweight,rough and tough, with a bob and weaving defense, making Dempsey very hard to tag solidly... Another point Dempseys weight was deceptive..Dempsey had ballet legs, a slim waist atop a large chest,large biceps and punchers deltoid muscles...Very strong for his weight, he was described...
As far as Klitschko, he is slow,good jab,cannot fight inside too well,[Oh, Dempsey would love that]..
In fact I believe that Buddy Baer, would have most likely kod Klitschko..Baer was as big , faster and hit just as hard...
I honestly believe in the law of diminishing returns...For a heavyweight the bigger you are, the slower your speed reflexes are...And we know the old adage SPEED KILLS...And thus so ,Prime Dempsey KOs Klitschko in my opinion...Keep punching...B.B.

 

Dempsey hitting as hard as Wlad is laughable.

If you think Dempsey has to get him in 3 you would be in for a rude awakening. Dempsey's sustain attack is underrated, and his quick kill KO type is over-emphasized.

 

Wow, you've really changed your tune from only a few months ago.

 

On the money. Clay literally transformed from a boy to a man in that fight. Not just mentally, but physically and he did it before our eyes. He improved much by 66 and 67. Watching Clay vs Cooper and then Clay vs Liston I and you see a huge difference. Once he became champion he got confident, and then just continued to get better.

 

I think this one is hard to call because of the tremendous, 50lbs size difference.

Dempsey's explosive left hook is a large threat, but Wlad was hardly as bad as the 37 year old Willard, or the Firpo (who nearly knocked out Dempsey), who has worse skills than an amateur boxer with 2 years of experience. I'm picking Wlad by decision; i think he'd win a safe boxing match not unlike Tunney did, perhaps also scoring a knockdown with a straight right, but sticking to his boxing skills. Dempsey only faced one fighter with modern boxing skills, and lost badly, twice.

But again, Wlad has lost to a quicker puncher so Dempsey is always able to turn it around.

For what it's worth, nearly all of his opponents commented on how fast Wlad was on his feet and he quickly he moved laterally. It is not something that easily catches the attention, but look for it and you will notice. His footspeed is just as big an asset as his handspeed.

That said, i think you're oversimplifying. It's like saying "Dempsey holds his hands low. I've never seen him with someone really, technical and fast with the power to hurt him".

 

Dempsey only as one ko loss in a lot of fights. I do not see an early KO loss here. Fans underestimate a prime Dempsey's foot speed, aggression, and power. He is the type of fighter who could jump on people and blow them out.

The question here is can Wald jar Dempsey early enough to deter his tactics then take him out in the mid to late rounds.

 

atsch

 

How does going 12 rounds with someone rather than getting them out of there in 2 (when a modern ref again probably would've called it in the first anyhow) equate to being better :ldevil again - RIDICULOUS!!

Your Flynn analogy holds no water because that was clearly a dive :hey

Oh yeah Jack Johnson was frozen out by the white supremacists which Dempsey was the leader of hahaha (nothing to do with him going 40-odd) - now we are scraping the barrel :rofl - you have a bit of a race thing going on here don't you - do you just not like the idea of a white fighter being a threat?? :yep

who else didn't get a return after losing in suspicious circumstances?? Jack Sharkey?? he must've been frozen out by the black italian mafia??

Willie Meehan - this is ridiculous you really know nothing of the circumstances of any of the fights you're bringing up - do you score against Tyson coz he got floored in sparring by Greg Page?? Because those fights actually probably mattered less to Dempsey

Greb left overs?? oh yeah Georges Carpentier and Luis Firpo were Greb leftovers - yeah your right :happy quick add them to boxrec because I think they got missed - oh also please remind me next time that no one is aloud to fight anyone that anyone has fought previously because that obviously makes them forgetable - don't worry that the guy has been considered one of the best ever for 80-odd years -which planet did you say you were from again?

 

Amen Rocky Amen...Todays revisionists , ninety years after a prime Dempsey,was extolled by his boxing peers,who saw his every fight,degrade the Manassa Mauler,without ever seeing him in his glory days...THEY know better than the experts who saw him,and raved about him...What egos!.

 

Cheers Burt :good, it makes you wonder at times whether Powerpuncher is having a bit of a wind-up - some of the things he's been spouting on here are just comedy - good to have a voice of reason coming through

 

Always nice to hear from you, Burt. Sorry for the very tardy reply. Yeah, we will have to agree to disagree on this one. I believe that Wladimir Klitschko would beat any version of Jack Dempsey and that is in no way a knock on Dempsey. It is a great compliment to Klitschko. Klitschko is not slow in any way. He has a fast, telephone pole jab followed by a fast steelhammer right. I do think Dempsey was faster in his prime, I mean he was much smaller than Klitschko. Klitschko throws his shots much straighter than Dempsey did. I think Wladimir would be able to survive Dempsey's wild onslaught to go on to at least win a decisive decision. And I'm sorry Burt, the Buddy Baer thing is hilarious. Buddy Baer would be demolished by Wladimir Klitschko. Buddy was no great heavyweight. I notice a lot of people have a hard time giving the Klitschko brothers any credit. It's a shame really, they are both all-time great heavyweights. It is rare that brother heavyweights are actually both great like these two. Anyway Burt, I don't even know if you will read this since it has taken so long for me to reply. Catch you later B.B. :good