Jack Dempsey's opinions on Muhammad Ali

The Feb.'67 Ring Mag covers the Ali-Williams fight. The cover reads "How I would have clobbered Clay" by Joe Louis, and below that "Dempsey's startling new opinion of Cassius" In the article Dempsey is really impressed with Ali's performance and gives out some real praise. I was just browsing the mag yesterday.

 

I think Dempsey was a decent man, and NOT a racist, but it would be naive at best, and stupid at worst to believe he wasn't " influenced by the politics of his era.

Some people might say that a truly great man would stand up against those politics and tell the racists to go fvck themselves, and fight guys who were more deserving no matter what colour they were.

I'm just playing devils advocate here.

 

Imagine Dempsey landing that over hand left hook on Ali that would have been a thing of beauty to behold

 

Foxy, believe what you want as long as you have a target to pick on to convince yourself that Jack Dempsey was a racist. Feel good about this B.S. . And B.S. it is... I cited before what Jack Dempsey contributed to his black sparring partners in their times of need. But you choose to ignore the freakin record. I cited a Jack Johnson who denied black contenders a shot at his title. But you simply ignore this... I cited my idol Joe Louis who could have given worthy black heavyweights a bout with him which would
give them much needed dough in those harsh days, but Louis's black braintrust denied them this great opportunity. I don't speak
for speech itself because I growing up would read articles citing that some black contenders those days were more deserving of a money shot than some of the "bum of the month club fighters",
but never once got their shot at making money except John Henry Lewis who Joe Louis knew was going blind ,was a LH and
was no threat to Joe. All this I have posted goes on deaf ears on ESB, and it is so frustrating to me...What irks me is that from the days growing up in the 1940s, being around and seeing some of the greatest fighters in history, I have seldom heard anything negative about Jack Dempsey. Indeed as I have posted before I as a boy lived next door to a trainer of the great John Henry Lewis where each night after supper I would go next door and spar with many stablemates of JH Lewis, eat salads with oil and hear them discuss fighters of the past. All of these fighters were black and so was the trainer my neighbor, and I would hear great things about Jack Dempsey, Joe Louis, etc. Never a negative thing about him those days and after honestly til a few years ago when I slowly learned how to operate a computer, and wandered on ESB, where for the first time I heard that Jack Dempsey was a racist ogre....Wrong, Wrong, Wrong...Dempsey was a product of his times as we all are, listened to Jack Kearns and Tex Rickard
made money after so many years as a hobo from the west, went Hollywood, screwed silent screen stars, returned after a divorce and 3 year layoff, was licked by a razor sharp Gene Tunney, retired and lived a long life as a gentleman, BELOVED by every race in America as a decent chap, passed on and doesn't deserve the villification he gets today from some mainly on ESB. He was the idol of millions for a good reason...

 

Burt - Did you ever go in Dempsey's restaurant ? A friend of mine gave it a visit back in the seventies and actually shook the great man's hand.

Muhammad Ali was/is my all time favourite but I also admire the 'Manassa Mauler'

 

Steve, I passed Jack Dempsey's restaurant dozens of times but never4 went into the joint. But I have stood inches away from JD seperated by the large front window glass where he would sit by the window table waving his big right hand mitts at the worshipping crowd....I remember his jet blue-black hair and his high cheekbones so vividly today...Steve I also stood inches away from an old retired Harry Wills at Stillmans gym in the 1940s. Wouldn't it have been interesting if I a youngster asked Wills his thoughts oin Dempsey ?

 

So because he didn't fight blacks for the title that means he's not going to be able to hit Ali? What a bad comment. Check out who hit and floored Ali. Many of them were several notches below Dempsey.

 

Mc, of course there are two sides to this tired subject. Most likely if Ali were living in t6hose days he woukldn't have been the brash mouthed Clay/Ali of the 60s and seventies. But if Dempsey were fighting in Ali's time Dempseys braintrust would have certainly been of different mind, woiuldn't it be fair to say ? We all are products oif our times and culture and Jack Dempsey was no better nor no worse a man of his times. He was NO OGRE as depicted on this site than many other fighters of note who did what there braintrust advised them to do including a Joe Louis, Jack Johnson, a Ray Robinson, a FLOYD MAYWEATHER, and others in a completely different era than we face today. Today I
knock my brains out trying to be fair to a great but maligned fighter my generation and before admired and respected greatly
who was beloved by millions of Americans respective of race or religion.

 

Ali and Dempsey met face to face in Puerto Rico after Ali stopped Coopman.

The exchange is from the new book 'Muhammad Ali: Portrait Of A Champion.'
by Scoop Malinowski


Mrs. Deanna Dempsey (Wife of former Heavyweight champion Jack Dempsey): "We met Muhammad Ali in San Juan, Puerto Rico after he beat Jean-Pierre Coopman in 1976. He was young and handsome and vital and so full of life. After the fight, as he was coming down the steps from the ring, Ali spotted Jack and he said, 'Mr. Dempsey, can I call you Jack?' Jack said, 'Everybody calls me Jack.' Then Muhammad said, Oh Jack, you were the greatest!' And Jack said, 'But Muhammad, I thought you always said YOU were the greatest?' Ali said, 'Jack. When I say I'm the greatest, it's all bull****!'"

 

I read 'Jack Dempsey: A Flame of Pure Fire' by Roger Khan and it seemed Jack was a loved/hated figure, until he lost to Tunney then he became universally accepted. He was controversial because of the draft dodger label. Mike Tyson's favorite HWT champ of all time seems to be Jack Dempsey, he always gives him major props. And Tyson's style resembles Dempsey's more than any other HWT champ.

 

Interesting MD. I saw Cassius Clay win a close decision against an Aussie Tony Madigan in the LH finals at MSG amateur bouts in 1959 and later saw the FOTC in 1971 against one of my favorite HWs Joe Frazier, but of course never saw the Manassa Mauler in action[I'm old but not that old], but admired both in the ring. Two great fighters from 2 different era's and boxing styles we can agree on that...

 

Jesus Christ, you really are a bitter, twisted, sad old man aren't you?

Read the first 11 words of my post which were.


I think Dempsey was a decent man, and NOT a racist.

 

Of course Dempsey was "influenced by the politics of the day"as you put it, meaning we all are more or less "products of OUR times" as I phrased it, which means that we agree more or less.
By the myriads of people who know me personally I am not
"a bitter old man" as I never use herbs, salt or pepper in my diet.
So there...

 

Damn, what a moment.

Real recognize real.