Jack Dempsey's Ranking

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:|:| :--silly:silly:dead:deadduh, duh dats all folks

 

You've been done for a while. Name all the top black fighters Dempsey beat?

Jim Jeffries, Marvin Hart and Tommy Burns all stepped up and had the ***** to face Jack Johnson. Jack Johnson fought Sam Langford, Joe Jeannette, Sam McVea, etc. Willard fought Johnson. Jack Sharkey fought Harry Wills and Joe Louis. Schmeling, Baer, Carnera and Braddock all fought Joe Louis. Joe Louis fought Ezzard Charles and Joe Walcott. Walcott fought Louis and Charles. Charles fought Louis and Walcott. Marciano fought Louis, Charles and Walcott. Patterson fought Liston. Liston fought Ali. Ali fought Liston and Frazier and Foreman. Frazier fought Ali and Foreman. Foreman fought Ali and Frazier and Holyfield and Moorer. Spinks fought Ali. Holmes fought Ali and Tyson. Tyson fought Holyfield and Lewis. Lewis fought Tyson and Holyfield.

You can literally go through every heavyweight champion in the 20th century, and they all stepped up and fought the top black heavyweight of their era, EXCEPT FOR JACK DEMPSEY (and Tunney). Even that racist Jim Corbett fought Peter Jackson once upon a time.

Name the best black fighter of his era that Jack Dempsey beat?

Hell name any black fighter "Color Line" Dempsey beat?

No top 10 all-time ranking for Dempsey.

Not even close.

 

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I'm not defending Dempsey I'm merely pointing out,[ for the third time] that prior to Dempsey only one white heavyweight champion defended his title against a black challenger and that it wasn't until1937 when
Braddock was offered such a sweet- heart deal that he couldn't refuse that another black man challenged a white reigning champion for the title .
As to your comments that Dempsey was responsible for 4 banks failing in Shelby and people committing suicide.No further comment is required.

 

Bank deposits weren't insured back then. That was before the FDIC was created.

If a bank folded, all the money was gone. You never got a dime back.

Three to four banks were drained to pay Dempsey's fees. Everyone who had money in those banks lost everything. And it was all given to Dempsey and his manager.

They joked for years about draining those banks. The depositors didn't have a say in how the banks "invested" the money. I doubt the people who lost their life savings thought it was hilarious.

Maybe you'd be fine if every drop of money in your bank account was gone tomorrow and you'd never get it back. And maybe you'd think it was funny that all your money was handed over by the bank president to cover the fee of a pro athlete.

I wouldn't.

And it matters if people are going to float the idea that Dempsey didn't fight Wills because he was worried about the trouble that might come as a result.

He didn't care about the trouble that resulted and the lives he ruined for the Gibbons fight.

But if you have some articles about Dempsey listening to the people who lost everything and giving them some of their money back or helping them out in any way, I'd love to read them.

I doubt you'll find one. Lots of articles joking about busting the banks. Nothing about all the families ruined when their life savings were given to Dempsey on the way out of town.

 

You asked about all the top black fighters Dempsey fought?
By my reckoning only two were factors during his reign Wills and Godfrey.Godfrey was only a contender for 2 years of Dempsey's reign.

The rest of your post doesn't merit a response.:-(
ps I only keep £10,000 in my account ,my money is invested in generic bonds, so it wouldn't make much difference to me if Barclays went bust.

 

Why on earth would you blame Dempsey for the poor mismanagement of the banks and decision making abilities of the residences of Shelby?

They thought they were business people and felt they could make a profit off this fight and they turned out to be wrong. If I held money in one of the banks, blaming Dempsey would be pretty far down the list when it comes to assigning blame. His job was to train and show up and fight, period.

You seem deeply confused as to what you think a boxer does. But even you should agree that preventing banks from making stupid decisions isn't one of those things.

 

Double chin likes wasting words.

Do you understand American history and the abject racism that was shown blacks during the early 20th century?

Do you understand the aftermath of the Johnson era and Johnsons bout with Jeffries? Do you comprehend that the people involved in that bout at a high level did not want to go there again? Those same people were around during Dempseys reign.

Do you understand the history of boxing at that time and earlier the challenger would pursue the champion for a title match. The champion never pursued the challenger. Yet with this very strong president Dempsey went out on his own to pursue a fight with Wills. Do you comprehend the magnitude historically of this? Unpresidented.

Again the history surrounding Dempsey Wills is VERY WELL DOCUMENTED AND HAS BEEN VERY WELL DOCUMENTED FOR 90 YEARS. NO BLAME WAS LAID UPON DEMPSEY. WILLS HIMSELF STATED THAT DEMPSEY HAD NOTHING TO DO WITH THE BOUT NOT OCCURRING.

 

Also Mulldoon had nationwide power. He was possibly the most powerful person in boxing during Dempseys reign. NY was the HUB of boxing in those days.

Learn your history.

 

I would say there is no evidence pointing in either direction that he did or didn't.
I don't know if John Lester Johnson counts but Dempsey I believe fought whoever they put in front of him, I don't think he gave it a thought that Johnson was black. Dempsey just wanted to fight that's all, he let his managers do his talking.

Now his manager and promoter are different, money was their game and boxing was the way to get it and they had the golden goose. There is a saying, "never ask a fighter if he will fight so n so?" The managers have to put a brake on them cos they will say yes to anybody.

Why all this noise for Wills, Greb was more worthie of the two, and in the minds of many then and now, Greb would have boffed him around.

The only reason, is three words, the color line. Why didn't Wills fight Gibbons, Miske? Tunney, would have destroyed him from 1924 on and maybe before.

I don't understand what all the commotion is about in connect with Wills as a fighter, judge for your self. Watch the clips, in the Firpo fight you will see one of Wills best tactics when he floors Firpo.

I find myself asking why am I spending so much time on this guy, defending Dempsey from the accusations that he was afraid, was ducking Wills, when it should be obvious that Dempsey, Gibbons, Tunney, Miske and Greb would have whipped him good and proper.

Ridiculous.

 

He did make that statement and he also contradicted it later during his reign.I'm not excusing Dempsey from fighting Wills the man earned his shot but there were several factors involved to an extent we aren't even certain about today.
I don't think Dempsey feared Wills he always expressed confidence about fighting him ,saying the big slow moving guys were his meat,he must bear some of the blame for not defending against him imo, but just how much is open to interpretation.
The accusations about him being morally responsible for banks failing and lives being ruined are frankly absurd and any credibility the maker of them had flew out the window immediately he made them.

 

Which top ones did he fight? None.

The best might have been John Lester Johnson, and Dempsey was lucky to get out of that one without a loss.


Dempsey reportedly received $100 and Johnson $200.
Opinions as to the winner were divided. Also, the weights mentioned varied from one newspaper to another.

One New York newspaper gave this report in a one-inch story: "John Lester Johnson outpointed Jack Dempsey in the Harlem Sporting Club last night. Dempsey failed to live up to the reputation that he earned in Salt Lake City, and was an easy mark for the local boxer."

Another newspaper reported: "Neither boxer was ever in danger, but at the finish Johnson was very tired from the heavy punishment he received in the mid-section and around the head."

The New York World called the fight "a fast ten-round draw."

The New York Tribune reported: "John Lester Johnson won over Jack Dempsey."

The Salt lake Tribune reported: "Jack Dempsey, the Salt Lake heavyweight, who has been causing such a stir among New York fans since he left here recently, last night won by a big shade over John Lester Johnson, one of the toughest negro fighters in New York. In their ten-round bout before the Harlem Sporting club, according to a telegram received by Dempsey's manager, Jack Price."

In his book A Flame of Pure Fire: Jack Dempsey and the Roaring '20s, Roger Kahn writes: "The consensus of sportswriters gave a big hand to Dempsey's courage and a narrow decision to Johnson."

Shortly before Dempsey won the World Heavyweight Championship in 1919, The Cedar Rapids Evening Gazette quoted him as saying the following about his fight with John Lester Johnson: "In the second round, Johnson pulled something on me I had never seen before. He just lifted my right arm up high and then soaked me in the ribs. He broke three of 'em for me. He hit me on the chin in that round, too, and I saw many a star. He knew too much for me. ... I thought he licked me. I didn't know how to fight then, and Johnson did. Yes, I think he won and he taught me more that night than I have ever dreamed of before."

In the January 1960 issue of Ebony, Johnson was quoted as saying the following about his fight with Dempsey: "I said that night that he was going to be champion. That guy could really hit. He hit me so hard and so fast for a while there I could hardy get my breath."

Dempsey later hired Johnson as a sparring partner.
Johnson was the last African-American fighter Dempsey would face during his career.


>>>So it's the KO1 Flynn, the dubious losses and draws to Meehan, and his hands full with John Lester Johnson.

 

This happens all the time when fighters come from the "sticks", they were not prepared to face the well trained and schooled fighters from NYC, just as Dempsey stated. NY, was the mecca for fighters, they had the best trainers, and the best sparring. Dempsey, had nothing but raw ability and sparring guys much like him.
So, the best black HW was Wills, and from visual evidence he was not all that. Why, dump on Dempsey for not fighting him. From the clips you could plainly see, he was slow, a grab n hold guy, who fought in the old style, the KD over Firpo, was one of Wills favorite tricks, hitting on the break. Wills, would have had a rough time with Gibbons, Miske, and a 165 pd MW Greb. Is it cos he was black, is that the main reason? On merit it would seem Greb had the better claim.