I guess, but how does that square with those who saw both of them fight such as Arcel who would be in a position to fully understand both fighters?
Yes, it's really not any more complicated than this! To oldtimers, the present can never compare to "back in the day", when they themselves were young.
Ali and Louis will be passed because men who are better than they were will come along. There's nothing wrong with that. It shows the sport is progressing. It's a good thing. It happens in every sport.
You saw both of them fight, too. That's the thing. I know it's different being there in person. I've attended hundreds of fights. But, before television, many people NEVER saw boxers in the ring unless they saw them in person. They just read the stories. Looked at photos. Or they saw them in a fight or two, and memories aren't always accurate. Film tends to be. And everyone has opinions. Arthur Donovan, the referee, who "saw" both, said after the second Louis-Schmeling fight that Dempsey wouldn't have lasted any longer than Schmeling did that night. But that was his opinion. I could name hundreds of people who thought Ali was the greatest ever. Or Joe Louis was. Or Marciano was. You can't ignore a fighter's record and judge him all-time by what other people's opinions of him were. You have to go by who he actually beat. Not who people "thought" he could beat.
I'll give you a clue the same guys , Harry "#1 for seven years" Wills, didn't fight, that Dempsey did fight and even a MW beat. Since Wills, was the best black HW contender, and didn't fight the best HW's of that time, his claim is as being the #1, is fading away. Dempsey did beat the best HW's of his era which Wills did not. If you are bowing out don't let the door hit you on the way out.:hi:
Also, Dempsey 1234, you've been on my ignore list for a week now after your racist rants. So if you're writing to me, don't bother. I can't see it. Anyway, I'm sure you have a Donald Trump rally to attend.:hi:
I agree an opinion is an opinion not a fact. The only true fact is Dempsey fought the best HW's of that era which Harry Wills simply did not.
The idea that Ali and Louis will be passed when others better than they were come along is a false ideology. Time alone does that job as generations who saw fighters live and in person die out. This leaves the door wide open for others to pass just because memories have died not because the newer are better. As an example Wlad does nothing better than Ali or Louis yet some say he is better. COMPLETE HOGWASH. Yet watch what occurs in 2-3 decades.
There is allot more to it than just seeing a fight. It's knowing all the details before during and after bouts occur, expert opinions from that time. Unless you are really good at what you do in terms of investigation history (and you are not looking to spin history as many on here try to do) this is a highly difficult process many decades after the fact.
No it's not. :roll: Athletes in every sport get better over time. It happens in all of them. And just because beating Fred Fulton doesn't hold as much sway as it did 95 years ago doesn't mean people forgot. It just means beating Max Schmeling in 1938 was a bigger accomplishment. And beating Sonny Liston in 1964 was a bigger accomplishment. And beating Muhammad Ali in 1971 was a bigger accomplishment. And beating beating Evander Holyfield in 1992 was a bigger accomplishment. And on down the line.
Arcel who saw everyone from Dempsey to Holmes stated Ali, Louis and Dempsey were the best hwts. He as such choose from a 60 year time span three hwts spanning that period.
I saw everyone from Dempsey to Holmes, too. So did you. In fact, we've seen more heavyweights than Arcel. He's been gone a while. It all comes down to who they beat.
