It has been written by many boxing historians that yes athletes get better over time in most sports EXCEPT boxing. At one time boxing was THE major sport of all sports. Along with that came multiple major boxing gyms in every major city populated by great trainers. This is where athletes became fighters. Today it's quite different. Rare to find a great boxing trainer in a gym. Hard to find a great boxing gym. This explains the real lack of teaching the fine points of the game.
Yes, there were a lot of great trainers once upon a time. That doesn't mean Dempsey beat anyone as good as Ali. Fred Fulton doesn't cut it.
To be blunt, racial attitudes. I have grave doubts that black sportswriters in the 1950's would have picked Dempsey over Louis. Another subtle factor was the rise of the NFL, and the influence of Pete Rozelle. Might seem odd, but I remember in the fifties the two most popular pro sports were baseball and boxing. Both sports seemed to be dominated by "experts" (Nat Fleischer is a good example in boxing) who maintained that the level of competition and skill had regressed since some golden age in the distant past. That the modern sports were dominated by black athletes while the past was dominated by white athletes protected by segregation is a rather nasty underside to this. It was just taken for granted that Ty Cobb was better than Hank Aaron or that Tris Speaker was better than Willie Mays. Certainly there is the old man nostalgia element, but racism was in my opinion a significant part of this. A consequence of the past was better viewpoint is that it devalues your product. If you are constantly told that modern baseball players or fighters couldn't hold a candle to the giants of the past, why exactly should you be that interested in the second-rate stars of these sports? Rozelle understood marketing. His pitch was that the modern NFL had advanced greatly. Players were bigger and faster and the offenses and defenses more sophisticated and advancing every year. A fan was watching the best there ever was right now. There had never been a runner like Jimmy Brown, a linebacker like Butkus, a quarterback like Unitas. Whatever one thinks about the truth of the matter, Rozelle knew how to sell his product. And the pitch that the golden age was now filtered into the thinking of sportswriters and sports historians, with the old golden age becoming more like pre-history, its myths losing their potency.
For whatever it is worth, the number of professional boxers globally, probably peaked somewhere during the colour line era. The large number of white contenders was as much a symptom of this, as it was of the colour line.
Well chinny Dempsey beat all the best HW's that Wills wouldn't fight. Your opinion matters little as mine does. But the fact is Dempsey fought all the top HW's of his time that Wills who as you state was # 1 for seven yrs didn't fight. Now that is a fact not an opinion.
You've alleged this before and I remain completely unconvinced. Do you have any legitimate evidence to support the claim that there were more professional boxers in the world during the color-line era?
How are you so sure that those old time trainers were better than current trainers? I know that this is widely shared boxing folklore but based on what?
, so you have dempsey and sonny liston above holyfield, tyson, and marciano? please ... tell how in the hell can sonny **** liston even being mentioned in the same phrase with these men... tell me i am curious
As another poster said, excellent post. I certainly think that racism might be a factor, never thought that prior to reading your post, but I know there has to be more to it than simple nostalgia.
I think it's based upon microphones and broadcast. Microphones are in the corner, basically, now. You can hear trainers saying things like "you need two shots or three shots, not one shot...stay on this guy." You are probably saying a similar thing at home. In other words, the veil is removed and the elemental nature of the sport is revealed. It's very easy to believe that these old timers, who you can't hear, are imparting pearls of wisdom after every round because there's nothing to contradict that. Furthermore, the only stories that emerge are the brilliant ones, where a fighter reveals some great piece of advice he received. That he received such advice around once every forty rounds is not recorded, because why would it be? But now it is. That said, some of Peter Fury's work in the corner between rounds in Klitschko-Fury was exceptional.
"all the best HW's that Wills wouldn't fight." Which ones wouldn't Wills fight? He signed an open contract with Rickard in 1924 to fight any one Rickard chose with the winner to get Dempsey. Rickard chose Firpo, and of course that didn't lead to anything even though Wills won every round.
I've never considered this you may be on to something here. On current trainers I thought Kevin Barry did sterling work with Joseph Parker the other day.
Thanks, that's a very interesting and plausible theory. I also think part of the problem is probably a lack of appreciation for certain modern fighting styles and techniques.
One of the reasons but not the only one is the trainers in those days had more experience cos fighters fought much more. The trainers back then had more experience under combat situations, learning and adapting to different styles and conditions. Do you think a trainer today would bite the ear of a fighter to get him to focus? Spider Kelly did in the early 1900's. Trainers today for the most part don't have the knowledge or experience of the old timers. I sat down with a HOF'r matchmaker, trying to find a trainer for a kid I manage. We went from the West coast to the East coast trying to come up with a name, believe or not that is a major problem today, no trainers. When I say no trainers, I mean guys who teach. There are plenty of trainers but very few teachers. I have tried Freddie, and right now I am thinking of two Abel Sanchez and Robert Garcia. Sanchez I think is the better of the two. Freddie and Garcia have too many guys. Another reason trainers in the old days, did more one on one floorwork. Trainers today for the most part do mostly sparring and mittwork, and little one on one.
