Jack Johnson (1909) vs Joe Louis (1938)

Discussion in 'Classic Boxing Forum' started by ETM, Nov 6, 2019.


  1. ETM

    ETM I thought I did enough to win. Full Member

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    Master boxer vs Legendary Slugger/Boxer.
    Can Johnson confuse Louis with his subtle movement? Hand feints? Ring IQ and great strength?
    Does Louis stalking, cutting the ring behind that laser like left jab solve the puzzle? His deadly accuracy?


    My own view is that Johnson could confuse Louis and win a decision or perhaps a late stoppage. I think Joe has trouble adjust mid-fight and maybe Louis would win a rematch.
     
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  2. InMemoryofJakeLamotta

    InMemoryofJakeLamotta Boxing Addict Full Member

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    I like Louis by KO but Johnson may cause trouble along the way.
     
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  3. Mendoza

    Mendoza Hrgovic = Next Heavyweight champion of the world. Full Member

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    In 1909, Johnson's prime he was TKO'd in 4 round exhibition match by a novice in Smith. Outboxed according to primary sources vs O'brien, whom Johnson had an estimated 40 pound weight advantage on, and knocked down and hurt to his his own words vs Ketchel.

    So a novice and two super middle weight did this to the heavyweight champion of the world in his prime? Yep.

    You're putting him in there with Joe Louis?!

    It would be over inside of six rounds, Johnson might stink up the for a round or two.
     
  4. Seamus

    Seamus Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

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    Louis was both the more masterful boxer and more masterful slugger.

    He piledrives Johnson in 6.
     
  5. RockyJim

    RockyJim Boxing Addict Full Member

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    1938 Joe Louis?.....it's just a matter of time...then he lowers the boom on Johnson...
     
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  6. he grant

    he grant Historian/Film Maker Full Member

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    I always felt Johnson would confuse and check mate Louis.
     
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  7. Golden_Feather99

    Golden_Feather99 Active Member Full Member

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  8. WAR01

    WAR01 Tim Tszyu vs Jeff Horn! Full Member

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    So very true.
     
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  9. ETM

    ETM I thought I did enough to win. Full Member

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    I agree. If Johnson is able to confuse Louis can Joe adjust mid-fight? He was very good at applying what he learned in a rematch.
     
  10. ETM

    ETM I thought I did enough to win. Full Member

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    Johnson couldn't approach doing as well as Tommy Farr? Or later Billy Conn?
     
  11. reznick

    reznick Boxing Junkie Full Member

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  12. Seamus

    Seamus Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

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    A) Those weren't Louis' best performances, so I could as likely pull up Johnson's pedestrian effort against a shopworn O'Brien.

    B) Johnson never met a combo puncher like Louis. Look at the film we have. The best he ever faced was a 1-2 guy like Burns who was straight in and out. McVey looks positively ridiculous on film leaping in with a jousting left. Jeanette not much better. Louis had angles of attack and a full arsenal of punches in his toolbox, all delivered with triphammer speed and precision.

    It's just too many levels above what Johnson faced and at times struggled against. And frankly, Johnson's largely static approach with his 45 degree backfoot stance doesn't offer enough mobility to defuse Louis' attack in my eye.
     
  13. ETM

    ETM I thought I did enough to win. Full Member

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    Fair enough. So view more or less is Jack Johnson was great for his era, ahead of his time but nothing special even 30 years later?
     
  14. robert ungurean

    robert ungurean Богдан Full Member

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    Johnson has never impressed me on film. I dont consider him a master boxer. He was a clinch and grabber who liked to hit while holding a foul today. Louis would pulverize Johnson. KO mid rounds 7 or 8
     
  15. Tramell

    Tramell Well-Known Member Full Member

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    Since we've called Johsnon to question lets do Louis.

    Got sparked over & over with the very hand Johnson told Ring magazine that he was susceptible to. Max didn't one punch Joe, he whooped his ass. Then he knocked him out.
    A LHW outboxed him for the entire fight. As Conn told the story when Joe asked to borrow some money to keep gambling Con said he told Joe "Man why couldn't you let me borrow that belt like borrowing some money? " To which he said Joe replied, "Why, you had the belt for over 12 rounds" LOL! Joe knew he was outboxed and saved by the bravado machismo of Conn staying inside too long and got caught by that Brown Bomb he masterfully evaded for again...over 12+ rounds.
    & We rarely mentioned Joe himself called his opponents bums. Bum of the month tour.

    Since Jack predicted what Joe couldn't evade, how am I supposed to think he himself couldn't duplicate what Max did?

    As far as what losses he had. Man I've read a few times where smaller guys gave him more problems than bigger guys, but when it came time to hold the title, he held it down.

    Joe benefits off of improving what Jack did, but few if any used Joe Louis' style as he wasn't a unique boxer creating, rather the consummate boxer who mastered what was there.
    It's like comparing a creator to a perfecter. There isn't rather a contrast.

    Jack knew when to hold/clutch/clinch as stated here, he also (on a side) note could use timing based on his concept of it. He, like Floyd & others today who train listening to music/rap was at era called ragtime? or early jazz, so he continuously called out Joe for being a plodder, no rhythm. "Don't mean a thang...If U aint got that swang do-wop-dowop!"

    Joe comes in to connect (CLINCH) stopped. Has to reset. On the inside Jack roughs him up. On the outside he lunges catches Joe and guess what next? (CLINCH!!!!) Ref weren't calling fighters for that back then.

    I got Jack. Especially if Jack grew up in the 1920s learning what Joe did from previous eras. Jack had no one to learn from in terms of black fighters in pro fights or any race. They were literally turning the brutality of pugilism into a sport. I credit Jack, Sullivan and Corbett for creating what Joe was able to perfect.
     
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