Jack Johnson (1909) vs Joe Louis (1938)

Discussion in 'Classic Boxing Forum' started by ETM, Nov 6, 2019.


  1. Titan1

    Titan1 Boxing Junkie Full Member

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    I could see Jack beating Joe by decision.
     
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  2. Mendoza

    Mendoza Hrgovic = Next Heavyweight champion of the world. Full Member

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    Lol. I haven't seen that one in a while. The real quote was Johnson would have caught Clay's jabs like Willie Mays catches a baseball.

    But not a chance. Fact, Johnson was out jabbed by Jack O'Brien. O'Brien didn't have a good reach, nor did he had any power, but he bettered Johnson with his jab. So unless you think Jack O'Brien jab was much better than Joe Louis... The only thing Johnson is catching here is glove leather in the face.

    I've seen the films on Johnson, he seldom catches jabs. More like he cliches and hits, or uses the height advantage he had to lean back from a shorter man's telegraphed punch. His guard was low. His punch output was low. His foot movement, too stationary in general. I'm not saying he couldn't move his feet well or didn't have good defensive reflexes. He did. It just his technique, and how he fought would not save him vs a skilled jabber, or vs. a puncher with accuracy as Louis had.

    Johnson hated Louis by the way, and ripped him. He was rooting for Schmeling, as the selfish SOB put himself above the needs of his country and his own people. Johnson wanted to be the only African American champion.
     
    Last edited: Nov 10, 2019
  3. mcvey

    mcvey Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

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    Johnson," put himself above the needs of his country?"
    He did two exhibitions for the "War Relief"against Joe Jeannette.

    This poster is not rational on this subject!
     
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  4. Seamus

    Seamus Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

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    Johnson's catch and control tactics would fail fairly miserably against the human tornado that is Louis. Just a different species of fighter.
     
  5. Ted Spoon

    Ted Spoon Well-Known Member Full Member

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    Johnson is bad news for Louis.
     
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  6. timmers612

    timmers612 Boxing Addict Full Member

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    Well said. As a previous poster noted Jacks stance with weight on the back foot limited his mobility and offence. When Jack came forward quickly it was very awkward looking because of this. Jack's punching was also limited due to this and while it was a great position to block and parry it allowed largely only single punches and only slight slipping, not the tools needed to beat the great heavyweights.
     
  7. ETM

    ETM I thought I did enough to win. Full Member

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    Not at all. Two of the greatest champions of all-time. Both elite.
     
  8. ETM

    ETM I thought I did enough to win. Full Member

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    Thats why I don't pay attention to him.
     
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  9. Seamus

    Seamus Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

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    Elite in their respective eras, I agree.

    But that doesn't translate in head-to-head discussions. Certainly not in this case.

    If you believe it does, please name me the 4 greatest heavyweights that Johnson defeated.
     
  10. Mendoza

    Mendoza Hrgovic = Next Heavyweight champion of the world. Full Member

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    Louis vs. Scheming II was more than a boxing match. It was a dress rehearsal for W.W. II. Johnson wanted Schmeling, who was being used in his innocence to represent the Nazi's to win. The President of the United States knew the importance of this match and told Joe Louis, " America needs these muscles " or something to very close to that.

    There's the truth. I'm being rational, you using the word way out of context. Johnson is on record wanted to be the only African American Heavyweight Champion. If the truth stings on this topic, you have some issues
     
  11. Flash24

    Flash24 Well-Known Member Full Member

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    Louis by destructive KO early. Johnson was great for his era. But if one watch the little film available on him its plain too see the way he fought was a recipe for disaster for a quick fisted combination puncher Like Louis was. Hands down by his waist, lunging, and off balance . The Galveston Giant who would be 2 inches shorter and 14 lbs lighter than Louis would be. And he would Get annihilated. Fight over in 4 rds if Johnson fought the way he did around his championship run.
     
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  12. mcvey

    mcvey Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

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    QUOTE="Mendoza, post: 20157921, member: 19227"]Louis vs. Scheming II was more than a boxing match. It was a dress rehearsal for W.W. II. Johnson wanted Schmeling, who was being used in his innocence to represent the Nazi's to win. The President of the United States knew the importance of this match and told Joe Louis, " America needs these muscles " or something to very close to that.

    There's the truth. I'm being rational, you using the word way out of context. Johnson is on record wanted to be the only African American Heavyweight Champion. If the truth stings on this topic, you have some issues[/QUOTE]
    Louis v Schmeling 2 was on 22nd June 1938.America entered the war or rather was dragged into it on December the 7th 1941, when the Japanese bombed Pearl Harbour , 3 and a half years later.
    Of course WW 2 really began on September the 1st 1939!Over 2 years before America entered it!lol

    Roosevelt never made that remark or "something very close to it ,"its a total fabrication as Randy Roberts states in his autobiography of Louis which I have just finished.
    There is no justification for anyone to state that Johnson wanted Schmeling to win either of his bouts with Louis.
    Johnson had spotted that Louis did not return his left to the guard position after jabbing and predicted that Schmeling , being a great right hand puncher would be able to take advantage of this fault Schmeling had also spotted this flaw when watching films of Louis,"I see somethings,but I won't tell ".Its actually on film ! Johnson offered to coach Louis on the condition that Roxborough and Black dispensed with the services of Jack Blackburn,they disliked each other.They refused and Louis lost the first fight to Schmeling because of a combination of that flaw and his own overconfidence and refusal to train properly,he spent much of his time playing gold and pursuing" hairy pie "around the camp.
    Johnson trained and coached George Godfrey and Kid Cotton,both black fighters and often hyped them up to the press. Johnson rooted for Louis to beat Carnera and verified quotes he made in support of The Brown Bomber can be found in Pollack's biography of Johnson.Johnson went on the stump campaigning for black politicians and white ones he felt could help the black population such as Wendell Wilkie, whom Louis also supported.
    Sam Langford and Joe Jeannette black contemporaries of Johnson , were both loudly vociferous in their support of Jim Jeffries, billed as," The Great Undefeated White Champion Of Champions",when he came back to fight Johnson ,and they were roundly castigated by the black community when Jeffries proved to be an abysmal failure in that fight.
    Langford actually coached Jack Sharkey to beat Harry Wills!
    Jeannette trained many white fighters, including Jim Braddock.
    Anything wrong with either of their actions?
    Your pathetic attempt to teach me history must be counted a dismal failure I am afraid.
    I recommend you read the following:
    " Joe Louis," by Randy Roberts
    " Joe Louis," by Richard Bak
    "The Greatest Fight Of Our Generation Louis v Schmeling" ,by Lewis Erenberg
    "Joe Louis", by Chris Mead.
    "Joe Louis My Life,"by Joe Louis.
    When you have done so, you might actually know WTF you are talking about,which will be a first!
    ps" O Brien didn't have a good reach"? Care to tell us what it was?
    I know you don't know!
     
    Last edited: Nov 10, 2019
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  13. Tramell

    Tramell Well-Known Member Full Member

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    I didn't word it as detailed as this. Thanks and props, regardless of who U got winning Jack or Joe!!!
     
  14. mcvey

    mcvey Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

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    Louis stated the best fighter he ever fought was 168lbs Billy Conn.
     
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  15. mcvey

    mcvey Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

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    Louis could be confused and made to look pretty ordinary at times ,so I can see Johnson taking a decision from him.
    I can also see Louis catching him and taking him out.
     
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