Jack Johnson Agrees To defend Against Sam McVey For $30,000

but history shows he fights never happened so you can but and maybe all you want.
Like I said before Johnson would have rather kept the distinction to himself and was probably pleased those title shots never materialised.
He'd already beaten them handily previously anyway so its not as if he wanted the fights made for his own pride i.e. to prove himself against the best as in his mind he had already done so.

 

The poster Mcvey is on his own personal jihad on this topic. He'll make excuses, ignore facts. and headlines that do not suit his agenda, and sometimes take it personally if you post too much content. You will not be successful changing his mind, even if it's the truth or Jack Johnson's own words.

He will act as if Johnson win over Sam McVey ( who was a teenager with just one year's experience ) , and consider it a great win as if they fought in their primes.

He will act as if Johnson's win over a 20-year-old sam Langford, who was then 156 pounds, and consider it a great win as if they fought in their primes.

He will act as if Johnson wins over a novice Jeannette, who sometimes had a losing record when he fought Johnson and consider it a great win as if they fought in their primes.

The funny thing is when Johnson meet fighters close to their primes with ability, he lost!

KO'd in 3 by Choynski, Choysnki slightly past his prime
Lost to Griffin on points, Griffin slightly past his prime
Lost to Hart on points. Hart in his prime, same as Johnson

Now, Choysnki, Griffin, and Hart as a group were not greater than prime versions of Langford, Jeannette or McVey...but then again Johnson never fought one of them in their primes.

He did fight Gunboat Smith in an exhibition match. Smith had the ability and defeated Moran and Willard, two men who Johnson gave title shots. Smith TKO'd Jack at the end of the fourth according to the report that says Johnson was dazed, and down, his manager stopped it.

Rounding out his terrible title defenses as champion is the Ross fight, which was a joke if you look at Ross record in the last five fights leading up to the match, a match vs super middleweight O'Brien who outboxed Johnson and made him look bad, and match with a crude swing Ketchel, another upper middleweight who floored him.

Any quality champion should have KO'd these three without being outboxed or floored. Yet Johnson to some gets a pass.

You are correct. Johnson as champion can say where and when, he just never chose to fight McVey, Jeannette or Langford, and there were plenty of offers from various promoters and plenty of nations and venues for him to select. I'd add Gunboat Smith to that list as well, as you can argue for a few years while Johnson was champion rated in the top 4.

 

It's a mute point really. Johnson was considered head and shoulders BETTER than McVey, Langford and Jeanette DURING that time.

Arguing that Johnson would lose to any of these three flies in the face of the actual thought of that time period.

Why these three did not get title shots has been argued for decades but it boils down to money. Would Ali fight Frazier for $100,000?..... in general NO. Would Ali jump to fight Richard Dunn for a million? You bet.

The real reason why Jeffries retired was the upcoming black contenders.....Johnson, McVey, Jeanette and Langford. (Fleischer. 50 Years at Ringside).

 

Perry,

Calling McVey, Langford, and Jeannette " flies " suggest you don't think too much of them. They are hall of fame fighters and did very well vs .the rest of the field when you exclude the matches between themselves.

They were also in their prime from 1909-1914, which are years that Johnson was the champion and was better than any man Johnson gave a title shot to, with the possible exception of Willard who knocked him out.

If you look at Jeanette he was greatly improved by 1906, in fact, he drew with Johnson in their last fight despite being a professional for two years with no amateur experience.

Jeffries last fight was 1904, until his comeback in 1910. He retired post Jack Munroe which happened in August 1904.

Please read the below and think about it:

Are you aware Langford who's manager once said he'd fight any man but Jeffries was just 141 pounds for his December 1904 fight with Jack Blackburn, and likely under 20-year-old?

Do you realize JEanette's debut was November 1904?
He started out 0-3 and did not win a fight until 1905!

No way these two were on Jeffries radar.

Do you realize Sam Mcvey was an 8-4 by the end of 1904, then quit boxing in 1905 after questioning being himself losing to Martin?

The logical and only conclusion is Jeffries did not retire in 1904 to avoid these three. He was in his prime at age 29 1904.

Nat Fleischer quote from 50 years at ringside is obviously very flawed and if he were alive today, he'd change his mind. Nat changed his mind often but lacked the data we have today called the internet.

You could argue Johnson for a 1.5 year period was the top challenger but after he lost to Hart in 1905, that obstacle was removed. Jeffries said he'd fight Hart. No one wanted to pay to see a quick fight.

As for who was considered above whom in 1909-1914, that does to matter with class fighters unless they fight. Boxing history is full of 100's of examples where the presumed favorite lost.

 

It must be said that after Johnson won the title other black contenders thought times were changing and most were expecting a free for all of black challengers fighting for the title, this was not to be so, not only because of Johnson's reluctance but also because the establishment was not about to let that happen.

 

What would have happened had it been Jeanette or Mcvey or another getting the shot is down to speculation but as my previous post highlighted even if Johnson had begged to face these men other factors primarily racism would have stopped the fights from happening.

 

Revisionists history.
Its not a coincidence that Johnson fought only one black fighter of note again after winning the title despite dozens beforehand. He simply did not want too. He might have thought he could win those fights but he also knew they were the toughest match-ups for him and he wasn't getting any younger.
The establishment were not going to allow a free for all of black challengers.
He was the one, and the only one.

"Johnson was so proud to be the first black heavyweight champion, he wanted to be the only black heavyweight champion and so he drew the color line himself".
Bert Sugar.

 

You are very wrong.

Where am I calling anyone "flies"? You are misinterpreting that sentence. What I am saying is your thoughts concerning this matter run AGAINST the general thought of that time period.

Fleischer was on the money. It was the RISE of the great black hwt fighters that convinced Jeffries to retire. Johnson was calling Jeff out constantly and he could see others on the horizon. Jeff did not want to be put in a position where he had to fight a black fighter. Now do I think he was afraid to fight any man? No. However all hwt champions knew the social ramifications of giving a black hwt credibility by giving them a title shot. And heaven forbid if they should lose to a black man. A great percentage of the public did not want this to occur