Jack Johnson All Time HW Ranking

Johnson seemed to have a high fight IQ, predicting Louis-Schmeling 1 before the fight. Then again his dislike toward Louis probably played a role.

I think he’d control the fight early before getting sliced up by Joe.

 

No he doesn't have a case for top 5. His resume has lots of problems.

He didn't fight any of the golden age except Langford and he failed to give Langford a rematch for the better part of 20 years. Black HWs were farmed by the top guys with the understanding the top guys would fight them when the shoe was on the other foot and they were older. That was how the system worked it was like the opposite of "0 culture". Johnson betrayed this understanding and used his win to justify not fighting Langford. Johnson is the boxing version of King Herod trying to kill Jesus as a baby.

Johnson shut out Willard and lost because he agreed to 45 rounds but that fight really showed Johnson was strictly a point fighter. At a time most smaller HWs were not. Langford or Billy Miske would have gotten Willard out of there in 2 rounds. I don't rate Willard as one of the best of the era. At least not the years he held the belt which was a much stronger era then the few years before. Willard beat Morris which was his best actual win but he did so fairly early. Either way Morris was at best the 3rd best superheavyweight of the era behind Fulton and Coffey. Willard benefits greatly from his name being on the list of heavyweight champions. An honor Willard did not win on the merits every subsequent championship contest has been graded on. If that fight is made for 20 or 25 rounds Willard is a footnote in history. Much less 12 or 15.

Johnson also took a similar path to Larry Holmes where after losing the belt he cameback but rarely fought anyone of note again. And when he did he didn't take the fights seriously. Like Holmes Johnson showed enough to prove he was still really good for a guy in his 40s but he didn't circle back to make any of the fights he didn't take as champion or add anything to his resume. There was an endless list of ATGs young and old Johnson could have fought. If this sounds unreasonable at this time Langford was knocking out Godfrey and fighting Wills. Poor Denver Ed Martin fought Harry Wills almost 20 years out of his prime whats Johnsons excuse? He had years to make that fight.

 

Out of curiosity how do people rate him in comparison to Wlad?

 

I have Johnson at #6 and Wlad #7, though I can see them the other way around.

Johnson's reign was underwhelming, but his career prior to winning the title can get underrated.

 

Not in the top ten.

 

I have Wlad around were you have him tbf maybe even in the exact same place.

Don't know enough about the Johnson era to rank accurately but is it his top wins that win you over?

 

Johnson's best wins came before his title defences and tbf, some were over pre-prime fighters. However, he proved himself about as far removed from the field as any HW outside my top 5, aside from perhaps prime Tyson, Wlad and Liston, he just doesn’t have the prime age defeats of the former two and had a longer reign than the latter.

If Johnson had beaten the best versions of Mcvey, Jeanette and Langford, he'd be in my top 5.

 

I suspected Wlad early losses may have factored also.

By the same token if Wlad got Vitali (or/and maybe a Fury/AJ) I take he may have made your top 5 too?

 

In my opinion he is one of the stronger candidates, in the perennial debate over who is the #3 all time heavyweight.

You can make a strong case for that.

Having said that, you can also make a strong case, for having him much lower.

 

Possibly. Adding prime Vitali or Fury to his win resume would certainly be enough to push him ahead of Johnson into at least 6th on my list.

 

You have stated Jack's status as accurately as we can get,in my opinon. Just outside Top 10 in a pugilistic sense but culturally he would be right up there with the likes of Ali and Louis.

 

Johnson was not just some cultural figure. He was the best fighter in the world for almost 10 years. He beat all the best black fighters and was recognized as the Black Heavyweight Champion something they had in those days due to the color line that existed. Then he won the World Heavyweight championship and totally outclassed the best white fighters in the world. He was considered so supremely great that he became an international celebrity kinda of like being the Ali of his day. Also you had the famous cultural issue because he was black in post slavery America.
Johnson may have been the first legitimate Heavyweight champ as he had beaten all the best black fighters before he won the World title.

 

Up until the end of the 1950s I would have put Jack at number 2 on the all time great heavyweights after Joe Louis.