Jack Johnson could beat Frazier (but it wouldn't be easy)

Why people still talk about Burns and Ketchel as the prime examples of Johnson competition? Johnson fought plenty times against big guys, his average opponent weighed around 200 lbs.

 

True, but he lost to Willard and drew to Battling Johnson. The only good big guy he defeated was Sam Mcvey.

 

That's not true, he beat many big guys better than Battling Johnson. He was way past his prime at that point by the way.

 

That is not even close to being true.

Martin and Ferguson were very much in contention for a shot at Jeffries when he best them, and Munro had challenged Jeffries for the title.

If you class Battling Jim as good big guy, then Jeffords and Russel probably make the cut as well.

There is a reason why Johnson was not particularly alarmed by the prospect of taking on a man of Willard's size.

 

True, but he lost to Willard and drew to Battling Johnson. The only good big guy he defeated was Sam Mcvey

It's not true? Who were the quality big men he beat?

 

I see it as a very tough fight for Johnson .. to beat Frazier you had to either muscle and over power him like Foreman or box in an Ali type fashion with that sort of output and not sure Johnson could do that without leaving himself exposed ...

 

I said quality big men he fought. Martin was a string bean type who weighted 190 lbs. Who was Ferguson , a journeyman, as were Russell and Jeffords. Only Mcvey qualifies a big man Johnson beat that wasn't a journeyman or washed up. The only reason I list Willard we he wasn't a journey man nor was he too old. He was quality at least for the standards of the times. We are getting off track here, Joe Frazier is who he's matched up against. I pick Frazier and your choice is?

 

Denver Ed Martin (203 lbs)
Sandy Ferguson (210 lbs)
Frank Moran (203 lbs)
James Jeffries (227 lbs)

These were significantly better than Jim Johnson. Then you have guys like Fred Russell, Klondike Haynes or Jim Jeffords who were around Jim's class as well.

You can make a case that Martin and Ferguson were better than McVea when Johnson beat them, even if McVea finished with much better career overall.

 

Martin weighed over 200 lbs against Johnson, you are wrong here.

 

Martin weighed 203lbs and had a significant advantage in height and reach.

Ferguson was a contender and possible title challenger, while Russel and Jeffords were at the very least fringe contenders.

I would probably go with Frazier for stylistic reasons, but it is not a given.

 

Jack Johnson would be an annoying man to fight.

Hard to beat.

 

For both fights? Do you have a link? Martin was a skinny heavy weight, and nothing like Joe Frazier.

 

The overrated Johnson didn't want anything to do with the Smoking Joe of his day Sam Langford after his life and death battle with him. No way he beats Smoking Joe. Johnson was a bully who couldn't take what he dished out.

 

I don't, do you have a link that proved he was 190 lbs in any of Johnson fights?

He was significantly bigger than Johnson. I agree he fought nothing like Frazier, but that wasn't my point. You said Johnson didn't fight big HWs, which is false.

 

Johnson handled young Langford rather easily in their fight.