Jack Johnson could beat Frazier (but it wouldn't be easy)

So maybe he was what you said. Martin was down and out quickly by vs many fighters. I don't list fringe contenders in fantasy fights for Frazier, but for Johnson guys with lousy records are mentioned when they are over 200 pounds. Why is this so? It like saying Frazier beat Doug Jones, a cruiser weight sized guy. So what, Doug Jones it's not among his best wins. Not even close. Yet some posters mention the fringe contenders and less men for Johnson to prove a point.

Off topic Doug Jones looks decent of film, better than the ham and eggers Johnson fought. We do agree with the pick of Frazier, and no Martin, Jeffords, and Russell are nothing like Frazier in ability or record. Yet we see them mentioned in a fantasy match between the two.

 

Many accounts have Langford doing well in that fight, some even thinking he had done enough to win. Too bad there isn't footage of it.

 

Yes I do. In 1908 Jack Johnson weighted in at 190 pounds for Burns. Here's the Jack vs Burns and McVey. 190 pounds for both.

[url]https://www.nytimes.com/1908/12/26/archives/jack-johnson-wins-police-stop-fight-negros-punishment-of-champion.html[/url]

[url]https://cdnc.ucr.edu/cgi-bin/cdnc?a=d&d=LAH19031028.2.125&srpos=&dliv=none&e=-01-1901--12-1915--en--20--1[/url]

Where can I see the weight for the Martins fights?

 

I meant Martin weight, you said he weighed 190 lbs which isn't true.

 

Show me these accounts.

 

Langford had lost to Jack Johnson the only time they had fought, on April 26, 1906, in a fifteen-round decision. Johnson was 29 lbs. heavier than Langford, and though he knocked down Langford in the sixth round, many spectators felt Langford had won the bout, even though Sam was on the verge of going down several times only for Johnson to hold him up and prevent a knockdown. In truth, Johnson actually toyed with him, carrying on conversations with ringsiders all through the fight. After winning their first match, Johnson repeatedly refused rematches against Langford, who was considered by some to be the most dangerous challenger for Johnson's crown. Another explanation for this Johnson's refusal is that he knew that a fight between two black fighters would not generate nearly as much revenue as a fight between him and a white man.

Regardless.. Jack Johnson clearly ducked the rematch.

 

Frazier would destroy Johnson. Johnson looks like crap on film.

 

A common criticism of Johnson, is that he only fought smaller men, and this simply isn't true.

A number of the great heavyweights of the past, are vulnerable to the criticism that they made their bones against smaller men, but Johnson is not one of them.

It is a valid criticism against Sullivan, Jeffries, Tunney, Marciano, Patterson, and some later men.

It is not a valid criticism of Johnson.

 

Source? It looks like a post from this forum, not contemporary writting.

 

I know Johnson fought bigger men, I just disagree that these opponents you mentioned are any good. It is as if he beats a 205-215 pound Mcvey, so he beats a 205 -215 pound Frazier. I don't think your saying that, just checking. So exactly what are you saying? You have me at a disadvantage for now. We agree Frazier would win. We can see the records of these " big men " that Johnson fought and few of them are on film and not very good! He lost to one and has draws with others.

 

My point is that Frazier's size will not in and of itself be an issue.

 

I don't have the fight write up, do you? If so please share. I'd like to read it. Matin fought Johnson multiple times and fought Ferguson who wasn't very good one year before meeting Johnson was 190 lbs. I should have stated that more clearly.

 

Then you are using what would be a journeyman and saying because he was the same size he was as formidable as Joe Frazier. It doesn't work that way, I think you should know better. Again the big men Johnson fought would be blown out by Frazier and were not good.

Focus on the quality of the men, not the fact that some weighted over 200 pounds.

 

Here's the fight report from the San Francisco Examiner. They describe Johnson as looking like a "pygmy" compared to Martin.

[url]https://ibb.co/WWTmLjQ[/url]