Jack Johnson in the current HW division.

I was being purposely flippant. I think comparing football and boxing is stupid and pointless, just like it'd be pointless to compare something as random as bread to a sport.

Boxing is a sport hugely affected by intangibles and for that reason, it doesn't progress like other sports do. Things like heart, chin, determination etc., are what separate good fighters from greats, and that's why boxing will never improve like other sports do, which rely solely on technical and physical ability.

 

Cheers, mate, I'll have a look at that. He's certainly an interesting character and a true great, like you said. He's one of those fighters who I know bits about...but I also know that I need to read up about them

Nice pick for your favourite though, mate. Duran was such an incredibly talented fighter. What a character he was. With the recent passing of my favourite of all-time, Joe Frazier, it's made me more determined to read about people like Duran whilst they're still healthy. so I'm re-reading Hands of Stone again. What a man he was!

 

You know you're on the wrong side of a debate when Jack agrees with you.

 

Duran was subtly brilliant mate. On one had he has the hands of stone, a naturally agressive come forward pressure style that would be a match for anyone in the LW division.

But it was his defence that was outstanding. While always coming forward, he would slightly turn his head to make sure he wasnt hit clean. He would step backwards or forwards half a step to nullify an opponents attacks, and it was fantastic! But it was so subtle, not many people realise it!

For me, he was the most naturally gifted fighter of all time, a perfect mix of attack and defence, not to mention his character!

It is only his losses (admittedly past prime) that bring him down in my rankings from the GOAT, to around the 5th or 6th place

 

At least he doesnt argue about a fighters greatness, while saying

That, my friend, is class!

 

I agree with that...!!!

 

Whilst people (Klit fans) make ridiculous claims about the likes of Ali and Louis not being able to compete in todays era, other fans do go the other way and vastly over estimate the capabilities of past fighters. Jack Johnson, as he was, would be to crude to really compete with the top modern guys.

However, if Jack Johnson was born in this era then that is different story.

 

Pointless to compare boxing to football? As same as comparing bread to boxing? You are still wrong and it shows that you have a lot of knowledge about the boxing scene, but you have never done sport yourself.
Every sport where you need stamina and athletism has progressed. Because of that reason you need to have the heart, chin, and determination in order to become a champion in today's world, the pressure nowadays is huge by the media, Vitali for example has a huge will and heart despite his loss to Byrd, but you will never see that because you have never been a sportsperson.

 

You're aware you killed your credibility right here, right?

 

Here is why i personally rate him. Jack Johnson is one of the few Heavyweights in history to beat every top contender he ever faced. While he drew the colour line late on, he had already beaten the best black fighters of that era before he was the champion. Were the opponents 'that' great? Well, arguably Sam Langford, Jim Jeffries and McVea all make a top 30 HW list. Basically, he was THE HW from 05-11, a 6 year run which is very impressive. Are his opposition drastically worse than Wlad's? I'm not so sure. But then again, i rate Wlad very highly as well. You see, for me, it is all about dominance. Johnson dominated the HW era back then, just like Wlad is doing today. It isnt theie fault the division is not stacked.

Can we say 'Jeffries was old'? Of course we can. But it must be noted that Jack chased the champion for years prior to the actual fight. And it was Jim who said no, not Jack.

Outside the top 2 HW's (Ali and Louis), there are very few who a) match his resume , b) , match his dominace c) have his skill-set (defence, mixed with good power) and d) match his h2h dominance against ANYONE smaller or of similar size.

Again, that is my opinion.

 

I corrected that statment a few pages later. I meant 'fast-paced'

 

atsch
That was actually sarcasm genius, i'm a regular troll on the classic forum, and making fun of Mcvey and luftcrazy is one of my favorite activities on this forum

After searching my history that's the best you could come up with?:verysad

 

Why didnt you just say that? Because it seems to me you didnt have a clue about him.

Plus, I didnt search your history at all. I am preparing a top 25 HW list myself, and thought i would skim through his thread as he is a very knowledgable poster IMO

 

here...let me give you something better to chew on

http://www.eastsideboxing.com/forum/showpost.php?p=11348048&postcount=52

the guy in question is Tom Sharkey, Jeffries's top contender.

 

Still Jack Johnson is completely overrated and there's no decent justification for him being anywhere near the top10.
He's the worst champ to be considered a top 10 ATG....his title reign was an absolute joke.