Jack Johnson in the current HW division.

Cael, this is what i wrote before

Here is why i personally rate him. Jack Johnson is one of the few Heavyweights in history to beat every top contender he ever faced. While he drew the colour line late on, he had already beaten the best black fighters of that era before he was the champion. Were the opponents 'that' great? Well, arguably Sam Langford, Jim Jeffries and McVea all make a top 30 HW list. Basically, he was THE HW from 05-11, a 6 year run which is very impressive. Are his opposition drastically worse than Wlad's? I'm not so sure. But then again, i rate Wlad very highly as well. You see, for me, it is all about dominance. Johnson dominated the HW era back then, just like Wlad is doing today. It isnt theie fault the division is not stacked.

Can we say 'Jeffries was old'? Of course we can. But it must be noted that Jack chased the champion for years prior to the actual fight. And it was Jim who said no, not Jack.

Outside the top 2 HW's (Ali and Louis), there are very few who a) match his resume , b) , match his dominace c) have his skill-set (defence, mixed with good power) and d) match his h2h dominance against ANYONE smaller or of similar size.

Again, that is my opinion.

 

I have also read bios and newspaper reports of Johnson's fights. This, combined with film, means a rating can very much be made!

You did not bring any of my points up, just used the lack of footage argument which I find idiotic. I rate Harry Greb as the number 1 all time due to the people he beat, the longevity of his perfromances, and from what i have read. seeing is not necessarily believing!

 

Some would say we are unable to gauge a correct opinion of Wlad given his weakness of opposition, but I am not one of them.

Like it or not, Jack Johnson beat every top challenger of his era, reigned for a substantial amount of time, and developed a skill set which allowed him to throw spiteful uppercuts, as well as having a good defence.

It makes absolutely no sense to me that you can immediately dismiss his record, his skill, the newspaper reports and many bios written about him, simply because he was around at the turn of the century, and therefore there is little footage available.

 

I agree, of all I've watched of him that was my thought.

 

It still wasn't that impressive.

He wouldn't have done **** with anyone today.

****, Gene Tunney would've boxed circles around him a decade and a half later.

 

Oh come on Vano, no-one knows the real story of that fight. And if you believe anything Jack Johnson said then you'll believe anything.

 

Honestly, though, if he didn't have the threat of having to go 40 rounds, I doubt he would have fought the same way.

It's hard to tell for me. Talent, size, skill wise, he'd be the #3 guy in the division. I suspect he'd fight more aggressively if there was a 12 round limit. Stamina was his best asset though, and that hurts him with the 12 round limit.

 

In 100 years time, when people, say the same thing about todays heavys, would you still have the same opinion?

 

...don't think dead people have opinions.

 

Well done Sherlock, give yourself a pat on the back and a gold star

 

It's just like the Tyson threads. If you say anything bad about Iron Mike you get two dozen nutheads with black & white Tyson avatars show up out of nowhere giving you the 'real reason' why Tyson lost to Douglas

These classic nutheads crack me up. I look at guys like Johnson and Dempsey and instantly realize they be decapitated by any modern day heavyweight. Not even talking modern day champion, just any modern random top 10 guy would destroy old-school fighters like Johnson or Dempsey without breaking a sweat.

 

:rofl

This thread has inspired several new additions to my ignore list.

 

Ketchell's manager is on record saying it

This was exactly my point a few pages back

 

Johnson was about 100x times more tougher than the Russian, both physically and mentally.
With today's best trainers in his corner and the lax 12-15 round bout, Johnson would annihilate either Klit and play with them like mice.

What Johnson accomplished, he did without the aid of steroids, PEDs, sports drinks, million dollar equipment, and biased Judges/Referees.
With the exception of Roids, which I think he'd bypass even if available, just imagine what Johnson would be in today's world with todays boxing training.

Physical attributes-Johnson
Mental toughness- Johnson
Ring Generalship-Johnson
Endurance-Johnson
Steel Chin - Johnson
Footwork - Johnson

At the end of the bout, I see Vitali bleeding like a pig, and Johnson fukking Vitali's girlfriend as his victory celebration.

 

If he trains in his days and only comes at fight night to our time he gets knocked out by any C Level heavyweight.

If he lives and trains in our time he would have a completely different boxing style and a good light heavyweight.