Jack johnson is the best heavy weight ever...

from the footage ive seen he wasnt very good at all

 

I disagree, Johnson had a spoiler type of style. He knew how to disrupt the rhythm of a lot of fighters, he was physically strong and had 25 round stamina. Johnson was a good strategist used feints knew how to tie his man up and use just about every trick in the book to neutralize his opponents. It would take a solid fighter to beat him.

:good

:deal

While his reign as World Champion wasn't impressive it's what he did prior to getting to Tommy Burns that made his legacy.

Who do you rate about him?

 

For what he had to deal with, Jack Johnson is KING. Even Ali bowed to the KING.
He had some Huge Balls to live the way he did in those times. And he was arguably the best of his era (other than Langford).

But as far as ranking where he stands ALL TIME strictly for the Fighter he was "inside" of the ring....it's hard to say. I'm not one to do rankings.

[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ex1TX2Vp3pQ[/ame]
[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GAy-Sz0LDow[/ame]

 

I agree that in theory improvements should happen as effective methods are retained and ineffective methods discarded.

The problem is in transferring that theoretical knowledge to one of today's super athletes. The system of producing fighters focuses far too much on building a record, rather than building a fighter. Using Wlad Klitschko as a less than random example, he only truly developed as a fighter after suffering painful losses against less talented fighters. All the years of retained knowledge wasn't the key; it was working out his strengths and weaknesses the hard way. He grew as a fighter from surviving the rough patches against Peter, and since then is much better under pressure. The main difference between the Wlad of 2012 and the one that lost to Sanders is mental, not from physical training.

The old school system of 100+fights was much more brutal, and for safety reasons had to change. However, those that were able to survive with their faculties intact must have gained so much in terms of skills, ringcraft, tricks of the trade and so on. Using Wlad again, he could potentially have perfected his style earlier in the 30s or 40s, as he would have been fighting more often in competitive fights.

Anyway, going off on a complete tangent. I just dislike blanket statements one way or the other that a particular era was better than another. I prefer just to treat it pretty much as a wash, and separate the fighter from the era.

Looking at Johnson, I don't see the argument for including him above either Ali or Louis. Most of his best wins are diminished in some way (Langford and McVey were pre-prime, Jeffries was well past his), and you have to wonder how he would have dealt with a swarming pressure fighter like Frazier or Marciano.

 

Either Klitschko would murder Johnson.

 

Absolutely, I agree. Pioneer.
Along w/Louis & Ali... either 1 is top's in my book.
(Can't go wrong w/either)

 

What does this thread have to do with either Klitschko?

 

Klit's don't make boxing's Top 10 just for riods

Don't make top 20 because they are boring as hell personality & fighting wise

 

i was not impressed of him beating up all those white boys. did he fight the tough mexicans or the slick afro amero fighters ? just the white guys up and down the st.

 

says the butthurt Brittard.

Your opinion is invalid.

The Klitschkos would dominate any era.

 

amazing thread...and wonderful avatar and screen name you have

 

BAHAH! Klitards crack me up.

 

Its more about the human limits of information and learning and integrating that learning in the respective sports.

Theres vast amounts to glean in boxing, but in sprinting theres basically only a few ways to run fast down a track.

In an athletes career, they will be bombarded with boxing knowledge and only get to integrate a small amount of it, so they will only have a small advantage in respect to the sum total knowledge on boxing. onversely, the evolution of boxing means that they have an advantage over their predecessors whose styles might now be largely redundant (Sullivan would get wrecked by nearly all ATGs who followed him).


But in sprinting you can integrate the whole sum knowlege on the actual sprinting bit well before you are 25.

edit -I came in to edit and actually forgot my actual point! how thick am I. back a bit later after some sleep. But personally i see Johnson as top 5.

 

ha thats what I was tying to write!

sleep now.

 

ali, louis holmes marciano holyfield lewis