Jack Johnson lies, ducks Sam Langford. Backs out of signed deal! Proof below

One of us.:hey

 

His given weight is not his weight ,it is an offered estimate he did not weigh in for the fight.
Clay Moyle has said categorically that he cannot be certain when Langford was born, but his best guess is he was 20 when Sam fought Johnson.Clay is an honest man . Box rec says he was 23 Pollack describes him as 23.
Jeannette lost the first round against Johnson,I'll post the ringside report just to shut you up.

"Jeannette ,after being thumped in lively fashion in the first round ,assumed a crouching pose in the second round. He undertook to run in and clinch,ducking a vicious right hand swing Johnson ripped a right hand up for Jeannette's jaw .The latter dropped writhing in "apparent agony ".He claimed he had been struck foul blow.
Ther Philadelphia Public Ledger Nov 26th 1905."
So not only did the ringside reporter say Johnson was in front
he cast doubt on the bona fides of the blow being low and note the comma's over" apparent agony". Johnson fought Young Peter Jackson a week later and Jeannette the day after, he beat both! We know how bad Johnson hurt his arm because he was examined immediately after the fight and his radius bone was declared to be fractured its in Adams book! I could produce ringside reports that say the champion finished the stronger against Jim Johnson even though he was fighting with a broken arm hadn't fought in a year and a half and was 36 years old! do you know if I was as regularly humiliated and totally outclassed on this subject as you undeniably are ,I would quit this forum.
I suppose hate keeps you going? What an empty human being you must be.:-(

 

The O Brien fight has conflicting and contradicting reports on Box Rec and elsewhere .

It isn't important, it was a 6rds NO DECISION bout Johnson, knowing he couldn't lose unless O Brien stopped him,hardly likely, took the opportunity to come in very out of shape and Adam's book gives excellent reports with quotes stating he was fat. O Brien and Johnson were the same age BTW

I've given you a primary sourced report.

I can't make this any clearer, Langford did NOT weigh in.
You say Langford was in his prime in1909?
Okay ,what was he doing drawing with Sandy Ferguson in1909,a man Johnson dominated 5 times out of 5?

What was he doing losing to Jim Flynn in 1910 ,a man Johnson dominated twice ?

:think:think:think

 

Of course it's old news, it's from 1909 but it is factual although clearly the writer hates Johnson and is showing racist overtones the fact is Johnson ducked Langford............................................... many times.

 

He NEVER once fought these guys when they were full grown and in prime.... ooooooooohhhhhhhhhhhhhh he beat some TEENAGERS... big deal. You gotta come up with something better than that, anyone who thinks beating a Langford in 1906 even remotely matches beating Langford in 1909/10 simply knows nothing about boxing so your post surprises me, I expected better from you. It's as if you just had a quick glance at boxrec

 

Ingenuous post to say the least. Of course they improved and Johnson did too, up until he won the title and then he decided to basically fight nobodies and tiny men and live the high life (to be fair that's what all the champions had done before him as far as the theatrical tours and partying)........ Langford was a NOVICE when he fought Johnson and he was basically a MIDDLEWEIGHT..... Jeanette was very young and much much lighter than Johnson too.... WHY DO SO MANY POSTERS HERE overlook these facts ???? I guess they just look at boxrec and think... oh these guys are heavyweights and think no more of it. OF COURSE JOHNSON SHOULD WIN....... EASILY, none of these bouts would have been sanctioned from at least as early as the 1950's as they would never allow such a weight advantage.

Johnson had copped beating in this period of the Langford fight by Marvin Hart and Joe Choynski, it is clear that while he was a contender he had tougher fights and was not the invincible machine he is made out to be later. Johnson loved tomatoes so much that he spent years trying to bash in tomato cans, (no wonder why he grinned so much, he was salivating at the thought of all those tomatoes). Johnson was so GREAT that he got smashed by Choynski who not long before had been KO'd in one single round by a five foot one inch welterweight. At the time Johnson was already highly experienced and a lot older as well than the Big Three of SL SMcV and JJ and his wins over them mean very little indeed. I cannot seriously see how you can say what you say with a straight face. I think you are a comedian.

 

Now to clear up the Johnson V Jeanette mess...... In Joe's first 22 fights he had to fight Jack Johnson 7 times.... Johnson
s first pro fight was in 1897 and jeanette was just starting out. Not many great fighters have had to begin their careers and make their way to bigger things in such a torrid way. he also met Langford twice and lost one of those but scored a TKO over him as well, he lost to Black Bill, yet did he quit ? many would have but Jeanette was made of hard stuff, he went on to become at worst the number three heavyweight in the world and maybe in fact he was the best and another reason Johnson ducked him. Not once in those 7 Johnson fights was this novice a heavyweight, he was a middleweight still growing, he did have a true heavyweight's frame but still had a lot of muscle to put on before he could fill that frame. Jeanette was and still is one of the hardest men to ever step in a ring and when he hit his prime he was brilliant, Johnson knew this, admired him and knew that Jeanette was his hardest opponent out there when he was a true heavyweight... well a cruiser at least. Johnson ducked all the best from 08 to 14.... and that's a fact.

 

You misunderstand ,I'm saying it was a subject covered extensively here a while back by the foremost authority on Langford ,Clay Moyle . In effect we already knew Johnson reneged on the contract to fight Langford and we knew why.
There wasn't enough money on the table once it became a champion defending his title .
Johnson felt the purse should be higher, more commensurate with a world title defence.
You can say, and I wont disagree with you that on principle Johnson should have honoured the contract, but he felt he had been taken advantage of while in a weak position, now that he was the champion the roles were reversed.
He wanted the same purse as Burns had received for defending against him.

You have no basis to say Johnson ducked Langford because we have written proof that once his price,[$30,000] was met he signed contracts to fight him,only to have them withdrawn by the promoter.
For you to prove your case ,you would have to demonstrate ,and provide evidence that a concrete offer of $30,000 was on the table for Johnson to defend against Langford and that he refused it.
Despite repeated requests from me,
neither you,Mendoza, or anyone else has yet to come up with such an offer.

Therefore your contention that Johnson refused to defend against Langford /ducked him.
IF HIS PURSE DEMANDS WERE MET IS UNSUPPORTED AND UNTRUE.
I'm happy to be proved wrong,all you need is a primary sourced,verified offer for Johnson to defend against Langford for the $30,000,[ which was his price for a title defence ,] that he refused to take.

 

You don't consider Jeannette was full grown at:
24,25,26,26,27,27 which was his respective age for each of his seven fights with Johnson?
When would you say he reached his full physical maturity30? 35? 40?
McVey weighed 207lbs when he was stopped by Johnson in their third fight he never scaled more than a couple of pounds more than that in his entire career!
McVey was the only one of the three who was a teenager,and as I have just shown , he was a very big teenager, an early Tyson!

A very big teenager, and the only one of the three that was one!
Promoters thought enough of McVey to guarantee champion Jeffries $20,000 to defend against him.:think
Jeffries refused and instead in1903 re-matched the washed up 36 years old Corbett who hadn't fought in3 years and had won one fight in the last 7 years.
Jeffries had his last defence against no hoper Jack Munroe in 1904 he could have fought either Johnson ,or McVey but instead picked Munroe ,he later said he lost money on the fight and he thoroughly deserved to!
In1909 Langford drew with Sandy Ferguson whom Johnson toyed with in 5 fights.
In1910 Langford lost to Jim Flynn whom Johnson used as a punchbag in two fights. Flynn didnt win a round in either fight!

Actually it's you who has to come up with something better, because so far you've embarrassed yourself by demonstrating just how little you know on this subject.

Still,you can play the guitar!

 

More unsupported rubbish
Langford was a veteran of 51 fights when he fought 40 fight Johnson so he was no novice was he?
That's one untrue statement corrected.

Langford's estimated weight for the Johnson fight was 156/160lbs Johnsons 185lbs.
He didn't weigh in so we cannot be certain what he scaled.
Langford's best weight ,according to Clay Moyle was between 175/180lbs tops so he was 20/22lbs below it for their contest.

Johnson said the best shape he was ever in for a fight was for Jeffries for which contest he weighed 208lbs,so he was 23lbs below his optimum weight when he faced Langford.
A pretty even scenario then.
I can't decipher the next bit.

Then you go on to say that "Johnson was already highly experienced "when he faced Choynski.
Another falsification, at the time he had a total of 10 recorded fights.
.Whereas Langford had 51 when he fought Johnson.
Another untrue statement corrected.

Johnson was 22 when he fought Choynski no one has been able to ascertain with any certainty how old Langford was when he fought Johnson Moyle thinks 20 ,Box rec says 23.Pollack describes him as being 23 years old.

But we do know Jeannette was 24 when he first faced Johnson and 27 for their last fight so another untrue statement corrected.

You think I'm a comedian?
I think you are a standing joke and I predict it wont be long before you blow your top once again and storm off in a rage.

 

Why did Jeannette," have to fight Johnson"?
Which authority compelled him to do so?
Jeannette weighed 185lbs when he fought Johnson over 15 rds inMarch 1906, source the Baltimore American March 12 1906Baltimore Sun March 14th 1906
An untrue statement corrected. Johnson signed to fight Joe Jeannette in NY for the promotional pair the Brothers McMahon, the NY Commission blocked the fight I provided the date and primary sourced information two days ago.

You really need to raise you game ,by at least 100%.:-(

 

Talk about being disingenuous, Sam had more fights than Johnson when they fought. So if he was a novice, what did that make Johnson? If you're going to critique others posts for certain things, try and not do them yourself.

Nobody is denying they improved, but so did Johnson since they fought. Want to know what they call that? A wash. The fights they did have weren't close, so nothing indicated the results would've been different with both sides improving. Could he have fought them anyways, sure, but it likely wouldnt have been the least bit different