Jack Johnson not as great as they told you, the video

Yes I had some badinage with him on the subject.
There are some great boxing writers out there, the best in the Uk imo, has just retired from his weekly column in the Sunday Times.I'm referring to Hugh McIllvanney who will be sadly missed.

 

Why drag me into it? Ive defend Johnson's ability as a fighter and skill in the ring until Im blue in the face. This video is pure ****. Johnson was a great fighter then and he remains a great fighter. I see his skill set as being a nightmore for most fighters. He was essentially the HW equivalent of an old Hopkins. A master at forcing fighters to fight at his pace and too smart for most men. Anyone who thinks that Johnson was legitimately KD by Ketchel and bases their argument against his greatness on that incident are both stupid and building their house on a foundation made of quicksand.

 

Yeah I like Hugh a lot. He's got a solid foundation and his writing prowess is admirable.

 

Well said.

What's all this talk about the Ketchel KD being fake? I've heard that before, but never believed it since Johnson kills him seconds after.

 

The knockdown lacks some legitimacy because he and Johnson had agreed to take it easy and Ketchel breached their agreement going for the KO.

 

It can be frustrating when people extrapolate too much from a single incident, occurrence or result. At base it is fight and anything can happen and does not provide a definitive answer what would happen every time.

 

So you guys are saying the punch is real, but Ketchel wasn't supposed to throw it? That's what I remember reading!

You can even see Johnson pointing at him like "Hmmm we're taking it there? Ok, we're taking it there."

 

This is a big problem with how we evaluate classic footage.

Boxing can be wacky. But we hold classic boxers to a standard of polish and perfection that rarely exists.

 

Yeah, we all like to break it down to objective criteria, but there is nothing more human than combat. Mix in you are talking about killers, guys that can throw bombs . . . A bad day at the office has big consequences. It is crazy to me, but also makes appreciate the guys at the top, never mind when you talk about best ever.

 

Truly when we see small clips of "great" fighters of the past we get maybe
001.% of their total action in their career...How different they would appear to us if we saw dozens of their bouts showing how they truly fought, and why their contemporaries held them in such high regard...For a slight example today we can see just 2 clips of Stanley ketchel on film.Once against Billy Papke in their last bout in 1909 when Ketchel won a 20 round decision over Papke. Ketchel claimed he hurt his right hand in that fight, and by this time he was said to be hooked on opium and was less than a year later assassinated on a farm in Missouri where he was recuperating. the other film we have of Ketchel was his
"ludicrous" fight with the 35 pound heavier Jack Johnson...What if we see film of Ketchel flattening his 49 opponents, how would are perception of Ketchel been drastically different ? Greatly I assure you...Almost all the boxing writers of his day were calling Stanley the "greatest middleweight" they ever saw til the day they died...Another example I cite was Ray Robinson who after a 3 year layoff and with only one tune-up bout was badly beaten by a very good
journeyman Ralph [Tiger] Jones in 1955...What would a boxing fan 100 years from now think about Robinson's ability if he could only see this only existing film of Ray Robinson being whipped by Tiger Jones ? Not much I suspect...
They say "one swallow don't make a spring ", and one or a few clips of a long dead fighter truly doesn't show his TRUE ability...Whatever some might think of
Jack Johnson today based on a couple of film might not be an indication of his
real greatness that was bestowed on him by a vast majority of boxing experts
who saw him in his entire career...

 

^ Bravo!

 

Speaking just for myself the slo mo shows Johnson starting to fall before the punch arrives.The idea that Johnson was dazed disorientated is pure fantasy.imo.

 

Yeah Johnson's so dazed, he gets up and immediately ko's Ketchel for 12 minutes,he is so unsteady on his feet ,he hangs on the ropes brushing his gloves off, he looks really disorientated there.atsch
Johnson tags Ketchel several times hurts him,realises it and steps into hold him and prevent him from hitting the deck it's clear as day.Anyone who has been in the ring should know it.
I discount you, because you're an illiterate MONG.

You need to stop with this manic hate obsession you have for Johnson.Grow up ,and leave out the comments you wouldn't have the nuts to say to anyone's face. What's your favourite film "Birth Of A Nation?"
Have you any conception of how you're viewed here on the subject of Jack Johnson?