Jack Johnson not as great as they told you, the video

Discussion in 'Classic Boxing Forum' started by Mendoza, Mar 1, 2016.


  1. mcvey

    mcvey VIP Member Full Member

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  2. Perry

    Perry Boxing Junkie Full Member

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    Monte's video is to say the least disappointing.

    I've watched the Johnson Ketchel KD since 1970 and my conclusion has always been that Johnson was going down before the punch hit him AND at best the punch s****ed the back of his head. Is it possible that a puncher like Ketchel with 4-5 oz gloves that are like bricks could hurt a hwt like Johnson? I say YES but I do not think this was an example. Gunboat Smith in an interview he gave many decades later stated the KD was faked. He was there.
     
  3. reznick

    reznick In the 7.2% Full Member

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    It just seems weird. They agree to fake a knockdown, and also to let Johnson break Ketchels face with a horrific punch?
     
  4. mcvey

    mcvey VIP Member Full Member

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    I don't think they agreed to do either.
    Johnson agreed with Britt, Ketchel's manager that he would take it easy on Stanley and he can clearly be seen picking him up and saving him from falling on two occasions.
    Ketchel clearly was trying to win but was out boxed and out powered.I think the likely explanation is Ketchel tried for the ko,Johnson, saw it coming reacted accordingly and went down as the punch flew over ,or grazed his head.
    On arising he decided to end it,and he sure did! Ketchel went out like he'd been shot ,estimates of his time unconscious vary from12 minutes to 15.

    In passing a lot of mileage has been made by the chief Johnson hater out of Ketchel flooring Johnson,may I point out that newspaper man Bob Davis said he was present when Bob Fitzsimmons weighed in on the morning of the Corbett fight .Davis swore Fitz weighed 157lbs yet he ko'd Corbett, no one casts aspersions about Corbett's durability,yet Johnson, IF the kd by Ketchel, WAS genuine was momentarily floored by a man said to weigh 170lbs that day,and its a big deal?
     
  5. Mendoza

    Mendoza Hrgovic = Next Heavyweight champion of the world. banned Full Member

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    I'm usually too busy on the weekends but will reply here for those who were waiting:

    1 ) Papers at ring size said Johnson was dazed from the punch! They were there. Are you saying they were wrong?

    2 ) Johnson's own testimonial was he was hit hard! Are you calling him a liar? Wasn't the story of a fix made up after Ketchel's death? How convenient. Also, Ketchel took a beating but managed to produce a visible lump on Johnson head/face from a blow. It sure doesn't sound like a fixed fight!

    3 ) Johnson often like to disrespect and play around with over matched people. See Fylnn or Burns. If you are using this as evidence of a fix, were the others fixed too? Of Course not!

    4 ) Johnson goes down, rolling over and had to brace himself to get up. This is a sign he was hurt. He was embarrassed for sure, and those embarrassed get up as fast as they can. To add balance was a strength of Johnson game. He lost his and fell down while Knocking Ketchel out. You never see him off balance in any films. A fighter off balance that falls down is a sign of a guy who is buzzed.

    5 ) If Choynski below 170 could KO Johnson, why can Ketchel come close too?

    6 ) When he gets up, he holds on to the ropes. Johnson was a gloating type, but here he's holding on, likely because he isn't fully recovered.

    7 ) A punch to the back of the head can disorient a person and it does not need to land solidly to do so.

    8 ) If you are certain this was a fake, which other of Johnson's fights were also fake?


    "The whole climax of the fight was crowded into thirty-four seconds. At the beginning of the last round, there was little to judge from preceding rounds to pick the winner. They met in the center, clashed and wrestled to Johnson's corner. The negro broke, and poising himself, dashed at Ketchel, who shrank to meet him. Ketchel drove his right to the black's lowered head. Johnson ducked and received the blow behind the ear and rolled to the floor. Johnson arose slowly and leaped toward the white man, landing a terrific blow on Ketchel's jaw; with his left he struck for the stomach and with his right swung again, catching Ketchel's head as it rolled from the onslaught. Ketchel dropped in a heap while Johnson sprawled across the beaten rival's legs. Johnson arose still dazed and clung to the ropes." (Associated Press)


    JOHNSON DAZED AS KETCHEL GOES OUT; Black Champion Finishes White Fighter in Twelfth Round. LAST SECONDS SENSATIONAL Negro Rises from a Fall and Piles Into Ketchel with Crashing Blows -- $40,000 Taken In.
     
  6. Perry

    Perry Boxing Junkie Full Member

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    The film does not lie. Johnson was going down while the punch was on its way. Gunboat Smith who was in Johnsons camp and was at ringside stated in an interview prior to his death that the KD was faked. Those at ringside did not have instant replays to be sure of what they saw.
     
  7. reznick

    reznick In the 7.2% Full Member

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    So someone talked to Stanley and said: "Johnson will pretend to go down, and will get up and pummel you in the face."

    :huh
     
  8. Perry

    Perry Boxing Junkie Full Member

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    Of course not. Obviously Ketchel had no idea this all was coming.
     
  9. Mendoza

    Mendoza Hrgovic = Next Heavyweight champion of the world. banned Full Member

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    Yes, I agree and so does the press that was at ringside also said the punch landed near the ear region.

    Johnson might have anticipated the easy to read Ketchel and started to duck a bit before the punch caught him.

    The press also says Johnson was dazed, and Johnson said something close to it was the hardest punch he took to date.

    A legit Knockdown.