Jack johnson on sam langford

Some discussion of Johnson's French Serial on this thread

http://www.eastsideboxing.com/forum/showthread.php?t=146789&highlight=entire+pugilistic

Clay Moyle's book 'Sam Langford: Boxing's Greatest Uncrowned Champion', is a good read.

[ame]http://www.amazon.com/Sam-Langford-Greatest-Uncrowned-Champion/dp/1934733024/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1266694201&sr=1-1[/ame]


Moyle reports that, on this fight, one newspaper called Sam 156 lb, Johnson about 30 lb heavier; another newspaper said Johnson was near 40 lb heavier.

Moyle's book also noted newspapers didn't mention Langford knocking Johnson down. Johnson, about 8 years later, related in a French newspaper serial that Langford had knocked him down in the second round; but a few years after the 1906 fight, Johnson said he was down once, but that it was from a slip in the 5th round. Nat Fleischer's father-in-law told Fleischer (editor of 'The Ring') that Johnson had slipped to the canvas in the 5th round, though Langford had simultaneously landed a heart punch. Sam, himself, claimed he dropped Johnson in the 5th, and that Johnson was afterwards more cautious. At least thats consistent with those who said Johnson was down in the 5th. Right now I (Guilalah) am tending towards Fleischer's father-in-laws report (down from a slip, but also took a punch as going down).

My impression of the fight, off reading Moyle, is that Sam took a hiding from Johnson when they met in 1906. Observers were impressed that Langford could finish the fight, and Johnson (who'd bet Sam he'd stop him) was rather chagrinned. Johnson landed the great majority of blows and, such occaisions as Langford shook him, was able to tie Sam up (while Langford had to fight through the bad times).
Moyle also relates that, despited dominating Langford, a couple newspaper reports said that Johnson's stock fell as a potential opponent for Jeffries .
Moyle notes that one English observer made a comment that, in the first half of the fight, Langford had targeted Johnson's belly (which punches Johnson took well); later Sam started concentrating on heart-punching, to more effect. The English observer thought that Langford would have had a chance if he'd targeted the heart from the start of the fight.

 

Naughty Naughty

 

Langford weighed 150lbs for Dave Holly on 13th of Feb 1905,and 155lbs on 16th of May 1905 for Young Peter Jackson .

Its a weight reducing miracle that a year later he managed to shed nearly 20lbs, especially as he had Yellow Fever and was only 12 years old.
Johnson was kod in a sparring session by Jimmy Wilde ,but it was hushed up. :thumbsup

 

Too bad Langford never got his shot at the title.

 

Many try to minimize Johnson's victory by distorting the weights ... the reality was that Langford was in his prime in 06 ... he had a ton of fights against terrific men, had beaten Jeannette at that point and was a full and solid middleweight, his best weight to fight, especially against a Johnson. Langford needed his speed and he was much faster at 160 or so that as a pudgy 188 ...

Johnson was in the mid 180's so yo basically had about a thirty pound spread. No doubt Johnson was the bigger man but in any match jup between the two he would be the bigger man ...

 

Box rec gives Langford 50 fights at the time he met Johnson ,and Johnson 38. Even if Johnson is missing a few, Langford was no green horn.

Cyber Zone lists 60 fights for Langford going into the Johnson fight ,and , confirms that Johnson knocked him down twice .

 

quite an interesting thread.
with a surprise.
i think the heavier and more experienced versions of langford were h2h about the same level of johnson. but johnson did duck him.
johnson also failed to stop young peter jackson.

 

None of us here have seen film of the fight, and the accounts seem to differ.
So I guess we'll never know.

 

My thoughts?
Its total bollocks, and was written by someone else.

Johnson weighed 185lbs for the fight and Langford 156lbs.

Johnson was not floored at ANY TIME, Langford was down twice.

Johnson won by a country mile.

He had 29lbs on Langford for the fight

"Jack Johnson handed me the only real beating I ever took".Sam Langford.

 

That's what I thought.

Are you sure ? Did they weigh in ?

How do we know for sure ? Does film of the fight exist ?

Did Langford really say that ? When and where ?
And is it true ?

 

Yes they weighed in .
Film of the fight has never surfaced ,but enough contemporary reports of it have.
Joe Woodman ,Langford's manager ,admitted he started the story of Sam flooring Jack to drum up interest in a rematch.
Langford said it several times in print and in interviews ,and, as he hated

Johnson's guts, I doubt he would do him any favours.
Reports of the fight would indicate that Langford was honest about it.

Johnson had 29lbs weight advantage ,so you give whatever credit to the victory ,you see fit.
Langford had engaged in over 50 fights when he met Johnson ,so he was not some green kid.
What you would consider Langford's best weight to be might have some bearing on how you view the victory for Johnson.

 

He did. He was just giving a little too much credit to Langford as fighters tend to do in their latter years. Like how George Foreman always seems to give his opponents a little too much credit.

 

Perhaps 138lbs is a typo and Johnson meant 158lbs.

That would be one explaination.

 

Wow, Burt! That's great!!! A legend indeed!!! I wish I had met him, but I never did.

I have had the pleasure of meeting with ex heavyweight champions, Jack Dempsey, Joe Louis, Rocky Marciano (very briefly - handshake), Floyd Patterson, Sonny Liston (very briefly), Muhammad Ali, and Joe Frazier. I towered over and outweighed all of them but would want a fight with none of them!