Jack Johnson suspect chin?

I know Johnson was around the super middleweight limit when he fought Choynski, because 10 months before that fight he scaled 168lbs for a fight. Choynski had 64 fights when he fought Johnson, so, as I stated ,compared to him Johnson was a novice.

Choynski was a big hitter who regularly kod heavyweights including Frank Childs, George Godfrey, Peter Maher. He had Bob Fitzsimmons ready for the ko after flooring him when his own chin let him down. Jeffries, Corbett, Johnson ,Fitz ,all called him the hardest hitter they met.

Johnson was not floored by Smith ,he was put halfway through the ropes according to Smith himself.I take his word over a newspaper that did not have a reporter present. What Smith weighed is immaterial, he was a known hitter. If Johnson had been floored it would mean absolutely zilch to me and most objective posters ,because they realise that sparring sessions are not fights, and as such have little importance in the scheme of things .
Otherwise everytime a sparring partner dropped a champion there would be a demand for a real fight between them.
Vitali Klitschko was dropped by two sparring partners in 2005, is his chin suspect ? And should he have offered them fights?

Just keep repeating the same old ****.

 

I wonder how would a bout between Jack Johnson and Special Delivery Hirsch look, considering the latter dropped Johnson down twice in sparring on January 11, 1912

 

The Ketchel knockdown looks totally staged to me.

 

And fought Lennox Lewis.

 

Is always hard to say how good was the chin of fighters like him, who are not hit too much.....

 

I confess I not only have never heard of this ,I've never heard of Mr Hirsch.

How about Toxie Hall challenging Rocky Marciano?
Greg Page Mike Tyson?
Travis Walker v Vitali Klitschko?
Raphael Butler v Vitali Klitschko?

According to Graeme Kent in his book The Whte Hopes, Andre Anderson had Jack Dempsey down twice in their 1916 fight, should he have got a rematch for the title once Jack became champ?

 

Johnson was above all a very smart, and cautious, fighter. He knew the best chin was the one that went least tested.

 

Sam P. Hall Jr. (also known as Sol Plex) of Chicago Examiner wrote:

Jack Johnson, supposedly invincible champion heavyweight of the world, took the nine count twice yesterday in a battle staged in the ring of O'Connell's gym. A "white hope" named Hirsch, who heretofore has not had much notice in the public prints, turned the trick, to the great astonishment and amusement of the crowd which packed the State street home of the boxers.

Johnson, apparently, was all but out each time, arising only with the greatest effort and with a look of pain on his face which showed plainly what he was suffering from the terrific punches doled out by the new wonder. A left to the jaw sent him down the first time and a right to the same spot upset him in the following round. The champion was so badly stung that at the close of one round he walked to Hirsch's corner and hung limply over the ropes. The bell had saved him. His seconds led him back to his chair and slapped him into shape for another three-minute period.

The surprise came in the third bout of Johnson's afternoon of sparring. He had cuffed Walter Monahan and Marty Cutler about in easy fashion for six rounds. He gave Cutler more than the latter was anticipating, as a black eye and cut lip testified. Then came Hirsch, the latest Carl Morris, and three desperate rounds, in which the men fought savagely rough and tumble, standing up, lying down and resting on their knees. Johnson audibly thanked the timekeeper when the final bell was rung.


Walter H. Eckersall of Chicago Tribune wrote:

Johnson put in another strenuous day at O'Connell's. ... He worked three rounds with Walter Monahan and three with Marty Cutler. He then took on "Special Delivery" Hirsch ... every time the letter carrier hit him a stiff jolt Jack dropped to the canvas. At the count of nine he would get up only to be knocked down again. All this time Johnson wore a look of distress on his face, and at the end of each round walked to his corner in a dazed condition. ...

 

Your post kinda doesn't make sense though.. you claim it's a little bit of both.. i.e. he was struggling with ketchel AND made up the story OR the story was legit and the fix was in. How could either of those be true when he was LITERALLY punishing ketchel like a red headed step child. His face was a bloody mess.. he was being brutalized in the ring.. he LITERALLY held ketchel up from being knockdown a few times. So really, that beating ketchel got certainly doesn't make sense for a STRUGGLING johnson.. I saw no struggle of any kind in there. Nor does it really make sense to fix the fight to look competitive and thus sell the movie rights and set up a rematch.

To your question.. no johnson didn't have a weak chin.. he wasn't KO'd for over a decade.. doesn't seem to weak to me.

 

I like that bit" they agreed to let Johnson win", as though they could have stopped him

Johnson was stopped in his last fight by Walter Price.
It was a backroom of a bar affair.
Johnson was 60 years old.

Johnson was kod by Joe Choynski in 1901, and then, by Jess Willard in 1915, thats a pretty big time lapse,and as good as Johnson's defence may have been, you would have thought someone would have breached it with a ko before then.:think

 

can you post some articles on this fight Mcvey.. the Walter Price vs. Johnson thingy

 

It was published in the now defunct Boxing Illustrated I have it somewhere . Price also fought Al McCoy middleweight champ ,under the same kind of circumstances , he lost to McCoy.

 

Holyfield did get stopped by a fat middleweight.

[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2pvGN9ne4xI[/ame]


The Ketchel fight was obviously not on the "level" with Johnson literally carrying him. I cannot say that even the knockdown was legitimate as Johnson appears to lay down even before the punch is thrown, a punch that according to some accounts missed its mark.