Jack Johnson v Gene Tunney

Damn right - anyone who classes this as a genuine knockdown is a complete joke look at the way he moves his leg in under himself the whole thing was bogus - but Johnson did enjoy himself in this one - the only thing that can be said for this is Ketchel showed a great deal of foolhardiness for agreeing to this because he set himself up for a lot of punishment that Johnson handed him at will

 

Agree with this, not enough quality footage of Johnson is available, what there is, is sped up so assessing his speed is hard. Johnson is a defensive master, good counter puncher and used traps to counter, excellent in fighter. Tunney too was a master boxer. This would be a great technical match up and a close 1 to most likely

Not the best example, but maybe Jeanette had a similar style to Tunney [ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Fqod-seL8gw[/ame]

 

Johnson was on a $5000 gaurantee against O Brien, 6 rds no dec he could not lose unless he was stopped ,and the chances of that happenng against the light punching O Brien were virtually zero.He came into the ring after a night on the razzle, overweight and hungover,showing complete disregard for the paying customers.I can't read the form of that fight as having any bearing on his abilities against boxers,Johnson handled Jeanette pretty comfortably , George Gardner too,that is the form line I would look at.

 

I would love to see some proof that the Ketchell KD of Johnson was faked. Did Johnson, a notorious fibber, even make this accusation? I guess then that Johnson faked knocking out the teeth of Ketchell also?

Really, it's as though there is a salaried staff of apologists for Johnson's legion of less than stellar performances. This "60% effort" **** is hilarious. And I know, Jim Crow scored the Hart bout as well. I heard Johnson carried the guy.

The standards of evidence and criteria upon which the judging here occurs are so enormously skewed from one fighter to the next (whether it be the day's fashionable darling or villain) it would be hilarious if only I didn't think some of you actually believed the **** you were contending.

 

No, it's purely a revisionist "myth-making" adventure coaxed along by that ham-fisted hack Ken Burns.

The amount of fawning attention that Johnson gets and the relative lack of credence given to Langford is nausea-inducing.

I never get over-excited. My pulse is 48 beats a minute at all times.

 

Ketchel did knock johnson down fairly. That was no fake. Johnson was stunned badly for about 3 seconds. Then Johnson's head cleared and he was fine.

 

:good

 

However, in a head to head match-up, is not training and preparation a major factor in the outcome? After a time, Johnson was a lazy fighter. Plain and simple.

It also seems the easy way out, to have that handy excuse..."Oh, I could have beat him if I had trained." And if my aunt had a pair, she'd be my uncle.

 

Strange that all the books on Johnson came to the same conclusions, and 90% were written before" Unforgiveable Blackness ",which Burns did not write by the way,it was written by Geoffrey C Ward. Burns used this as the nucleus for his documentary ,along with a healthy slice of," Papa Jack", written by Randy Roberts.
Burns is a fine documentary maker, and his Jazz docu is a classic.
Johnson said he faked the kd by ketchel ,and so did Gunboat Smith ,who was his sparring partner for that fight,whether you believe it is entirely up to you.

 

Suzie you dissappoint me - I don't know what fight you've been watching but - sure Ketchel couldn't resist planting one on Johnson - and definately went for it legitimately (at no other point in the fights previous 11 rounds of acting did he throw anything like that kind of punch - which suggests that things might have got interesting if he had?) - but please watch the film of the moment in slow motion - you'll clearly see Johnson's fold his stabilising leading leg under him himself (I've done it and paused it at the fraction of a second his leg moved and guess what? Ketchels swing had travelled only about 75% of the way so the reaction happens before the punch) - for no apparent reason it leaves the floor before the punch has really arrived and and as Johnson hence tilts over in that direction his head ducks under the wild arking swing and Ketchel's mitt whistles harmlessly over his shoulder save for slightly dragging Johnson down (although Johnson's swandive was already 80% completed) when it had loss virtually all velocity - Johnson was clearly begining to pitch forward in unison with the punch travelling in his direction - not in response to it landing on him - you can watch the full ark of the punch and you tell me if at any point there is the moment of resistance or connection?? Sorry Suzie but it just didn't happen :good

 

I read the Ward book but thanks for re-informing where it was not necessary.

Johnson also said he took a dive versus Willlard which is entirely full of ****. Did he say why he threw one of the best punches of his career right after his "fake" knock down?