Jack Johnson v Gene Tunney

Johnson sold a signed confession to Nat Fleischer that he took a dive against Willard ,I dont beleive it for one moment, he was in front at the end of the 20th round but very weary the fight was scheduled for 45 rds in the Havana heat, unrealistic. Johnson was not in shape and 37 years old, the ko was legit.
I beleive the Ketchel kd may have been a fake,Johnson certainly looks like he is going down before being hit.
I would not dare to re - inform you Seamus, everyone knows you allready know everything .You tell us often enough .
I just wondered why you mentioned Burns , as though he is the instigator of some crusade to rehabilitate Johnson ,Burns is not a boxing man ,he is a documentary maker of various subjects ,and quite learned on music.

 

Huh? All accounts agree Sharkey won every round, if not every second, and never was down or in any sort of trouble. Wills was DQ'd for a blatant back-hand.

No he wasn't, he had battered Sharkey late in the prior round and was winning the final round just before it ended.

When are you claiming that Wills hit Sharkey low??

 

Johnson was not a top out fighter, and could be out boxed at a distance on film by the likes of Frank Moran. Tunney speed, footwork, higher punch out put , and excellent stamina and chin would earn him a decision.

 

Johnson was well past his prime when he fought Moran. He even had a tire around his midsection.

 

I always was led to believe Wills him Sharkey low. I will concede the point about the backhand, upon reading the new york times round by round. Still, he got DQed for doing something illegal. Dempsey did not. I stand by my earlier assessment Dempsey argubably could and should have been DQed, or at the very least sharkey should have been given time to recover from the ball shot. Just imagine, after sharkey hit schmeling low if he followed up with a left hook and they awarded sharkey a 4 round knockout victory over schmeling?


I have watched the sharkey-dempsey fight many times. Sharkey was dominating him. He won around 5 of the first 6 rounds on any fair card. Dempsey got desperate, because sharkey was giving him a boxing lesson. Dempsey was not in his prime anymore, and this helped sharkey a great deal..But I think sharkey was the better fighter by that point, and should have been the one fighting gene in 1927(not jack).

 

How predictable was this ?atsch

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Johnson weighed 221lbs for Moran ,the fat on his arse, and hips, can clearly be seen ,compare this with the picture of him against Ketchel ,washboard stomach no surplus anywhere.
We sure have missed all that Johnson hate around here.

 

Protect Yourself At All Times

 

Johnson is very hard to gage as most of his best, pre-title fights do not exist on film and he was a bit of a spiteful-rebelious head case - you are not a apologist for trying to factor his performances - the man had a very defiant streak and did what he felt like - he often fought just as hard as he felt like, often enough just to win - he was a very complex man . He wrote that once he reached a certain point in his career that he did not over exert himself for fear of burning himself out ... he seemed to delight in frustrating one and all ...

Putting this all aside , assuming he brings his A game, Tunney is still a huge problem for Johnson .. Tunney was extremely well conditioned, lightning fast, had a great chin , under rated power and was a very clever master boxer ... in addition , he was more offensive minded than Johnson .. JOhnson was closest to Hopkins as any present day fighter ... more of a trap setting counter puncher ... I see Tunney possibly out punching him and forcing Johnson to fight a far more aggressive fight than we have any film to gage by ...

Either way this is a very close match up ..

 

Tell that to Riddick Bowe then eh?:good Protect yourself at all times against Golota.

 

Completely different, he didn't drop his guard and look at the ref leaving himself open to a haymaker. Similar situation to Mayweather-Gatti/Mosley, unless the ref stops the action or you fall to the floor you protect yourself

 

He was in shape enough to go 20 rounds. These days 220 at 6 feet is fine. Johnson was a broad guy.

The excuses you make for Johnson being Ko'd by a super middle ( Choynski ), perhaps out boxed in a 6 rounder vs another super middle ( O'brien ), losing to Hart, getting floored by middle ( Ketchel ) , escaping with a draw vs Jim Battling Johnson, and for all intestive purposes being TKo'd in 4 round match vs Smith are never ending.

I have heard them all. He wasn't in shape! He wasn't ready! It was a fixed fight!. how about he was fighting on Tuesday....blah blah blah. Let the news reads and films tell the story.

 

Perhaps Sharkey lowered his gaurd because his balls were in such severe pain from a low blow? Ever been hit in the balls? Your human instinct is too clutch on to them after being hit there.

 

He was in shape enough to go 26 rds with Willard when he was 37 , maybe that just shows how good he was, rather than that he was in good condition?

The photos clearly show the difference in Johnson's condition.

Well, not to you but then you are not rational on this subject.
So your opinion is worthless.

Outboxed at range by Moran ? What a load of bollocks.
Moran lands ONE decent punch the whole fight ,and Johnson stands back and applauds him, this can be clearly seen on the film.

Intestive? Been inventing again?

 

Johnson by UD

in one of the most technical fights in history

 

I doubt you have seen the 20 round footage of Moran vs Johnson. I have. The fight was close. Moran did better from a distance, Johnson did better at close range.

Ok--Johnson was in great shape when he was knocked down, had to roll over, and brace himself to get up vs. Ketchel, then fell down himself ( guys who are hurt have bad balance ) while delivering the KO blow. Is that better?

It is not I who is not rational on the topic. I present plenty of facts. You present plenty of excuses.