Jack Johnson v Joe Jeanette I and unrecorded fight

You posted it in good faith without any agenda , just as I did my Jeannette v Louis,Johnson ,and Dempsey thread.I originally mentioned Jeannette's series against Johnson because a poster took serious umbrage when I said I thought Jeannette was slightly overated .
I don't consider them to be among his major victories .
I then touched on them further in response to another poster HE Grant saying how close they were, which I did not agree with.
Then I posted the fight reports which support my view.
I also posted the fact that Johnson signed to fight Jeannette,McVey and Langford in title defences only for the offers to be withdrawn through no fault of his own.
Again I did this in reply to a poster saying Johnson refused to fight them when they improved.
They didn't address my proof ,as I knew they wouldn't ,just as they didn't address the fact that Johnson also improved!
Some nut huggers,and there is no more suitable term to describe them, believe what they want to believe and read what they want to read into others posts even when it isn't there.
My conscience is clear ,I can swear on my Grandchildren's lives I had no ulterior agenda when I made my thread .
I've had a loony stalking my responses ever since I made it, ascribing motives to me that never existed in thought or deed . Well no more threads from me, let the trolls feed off each other.
BTW .Nice to see you here and I'm sorry you got slightly embroiled in this.
Indignant responses from a cretin , repeating for the 100th time what he has already posted in the last week and now doing so to a 5 years old thread that originally attempted to shed some light on a 2 fighters records!
It makes you wonder why we bother? Well this old fella won't be bothering anymore! I've been looking at your lineal rankings and am very grateful you took the time to do them, they are badly needed and fill the gaping hole that existed before 1924!
They are now in my favourites as a valuable point of reference.Keep The Faith.

 

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You posted it in good faith without any agenda , just as I did my Jeannette v Louis,Johnson ,and Dempsey thread.I originally did not mention Jeannette's series against Johnson because I don't consider them to be his major victories .
I only touched on them in response to another poster HE Grant saying how close they were, which I did not agree with.
Then I posted the fight reports which support my view.I also posted the fact that Johnson signed to fight Jeannette,McVey and Langford in title defences only for the offers to be withdrawn through no fault of his own.
Again I did this in reply to a poster saying he refused to fight them when they improved.
They didn't address my proof ,as I knew they wouldn't ,just as they didn't address the fact that Johnson also improved!
Some nut huggers,and there is no more suitable term to describe them, believe what they want to believe and read what they want to read into others posts even when it isn't there.
My conscience is clear ,I can swear on my Grandchildren's lives I had no ulterior agenda when I made my thread .
I've had a loony stalking my responses ever since I made it, ascribing motives to me that never existed in thought or deed . Well no more threads from me, let the trolls feed off each other.
BTW .Nice to see you here and I'm sorry you got slightly embroiled in this.
Indignant responses from a cretin , repeating for the 100th time what he has already posted in the last week and now doing so to a 5 years old thread that originally attempted to shed some light on a 2 fighters records!
It makes you wonder why we bother? Well this old fella won't be bothering anymore! I've been looking at your lineal rankings and am very grateful you took the time to do them, they are badly needed and fill the gaping hole that existed before 1924!
They are now in my favourites as a valuable point of reference.Keep The Faith.

 

mcvey,You posted it in good faith without any agenda , just as I did my Jeannette v Louis,Johnson ,and Dempsey thread.I originally mentioned Jeannette's series against Johnson because a poster took serious umbrage when I said I thought Jeannette was slightly overated .

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I don't consider them to be among his major victories .
I then touched on them further in response to another poster HE Grant saying how close they were, which I did not agree with.

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Then I posted the fight reports which support my view.

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I also posted the fact that Johnson signed to fight Jeannette,McVey and Langford in title defences only for the offers to be withdrawn through no fault of his own.

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Again I did this in reply to a poster saying Johnson refused to fight them when they improved.

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They didn't address my proof ,as I knew they wouldn't ,just as they didn't address the fact that Johnson also improved!

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Some nut huggers,and there is no more suitable term to describe them, believe what they want to believe and read what they want to read into others posts even when it isn't there.

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My conscience is clear ,I can swear on my Grandchildren's lives I had no ulterior agenda when I made my thread .

This content is protected

I've had a loony stalking my responses ever since I made it, ascribing motives to me that never existed in thought or deed .

This content is protected

Well no more threads from me, let the trolls feed off each other.

This content is protected

BTW .Nice to see you here and I'm sorry you got slightly embroiled in this.

This content is protected

Indignant responses from a cretin , repeating for the 100th time what he has already posted in the last week and nowdoing so to a 5 years old thread that originally attempted to shed some light on a 2 fighters records!

This content is protected

It makes you wonder why we bother? Well this old fella won't be bothering anymore! I've been looking at your lineal rankings and am very grateful you took the time to do them, they are badly needed and fill the gaping hole that existed before 1924!
They are now in my favourites as a valuable point of reference.Keep The Faith.

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I also posted the fact that Johnson signed to fight Jeannette,McVey and Langford in title defences only for the offers to be withdrawn through no fault of his own.

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Johnson's price to defend his title was $30,000, no one was barred if they had the $$$.

In December 1911 Johnson was offered $15,000 to defend against Jeannette, in a ten rounder ,with Jeannette to get $5000.The New York Age. December 28th 1911
Johnson responded by saying he would fight Jeannette if a $30,000 guarantee was posted .The Call Jan 1912.
Jan 1912 Hugh McIntosh offers Johnson $30,000 to defend against McVey who had just beaten Langford.
Johnson says he will accept the fight if the money will be deposited in a reliable bank before he left Chicago.
The Freeman Jan 12 1912.
Johnson agreed to fight Sam McVey On Dec 30th 1911. The fight to take place on Easter Monday April 8th 1912, for $30,000, plus $5000 training expenses.San Francisco Call Dec 30th 1911.
The Religious faction in Sydney agitated for the fight to be prohibited and the business men who were to back the fight pulled out.
Jim Coffroth offered Johnson a flat fee of $30,000 to defend against Jim Flynn in July 1912 Johnson took the deal .Who wouldn't?
Now McIntosh re-surfaced and wired Johnson that as a result of the opposition to his defence against McVey in Aussie, he proposed to promote the fight in France ,it was to be held on June 23rds but this was too close to the Flynn fight which would be held in the US .Johnson was to get the $30,000 plus $1,100 training exes ,plus1/3 of the movie rights.
He was offered neither of the latter for the Jeannette fight and he would have had to travel to Paris under his own steam for it.
The McMahon Brothers promoting in NY tried again to get a Johnson v Jeannette title fight off the ground and they upped their offer to the required amount, The NY boxing commission immediately banned Johnson from fighting in the state and issued the following announcement,on Jan11 1912.
"I will not allow Johnson to box in the state against anyone,I have come to the conclusion it is against public policy and expediency to have Johnson box here.This is final." Boxing Commissioner Frank O' Neill.
Dan McKetrick ,Jeannette' s manager offered Johnson $15,000 to defend against Joe in a ten round fight ,This was less than half what Johnson was getting to fight Flynn.
Johnson responded in the papers by saying."ThIS McKetrick makes me tired. At first he said Jeannette was a marathon fighter that he could beat me over a route, but would have no chance over ten rounds.Now he wants it over ten rounds and bunk the, public because he knows I can make Joe look foolish.However,if he comes across with A $30,000 bid he can have a ten round whirl before I box Flynn." The Salt Lake TribuneJan 12 1912.

NB On July19 1912 Battling Jim Johnson beat Joe Jeannette in a 6 rounder."In the 3rd round Johnson threw Jeannette to the floor"."In the 5th rd Johnson dropped Jeannette with a punch to the jaw.Joe was shaken, but fought back hard.
Both were tired at the endof the 6th rd Joe used stomach blows, but Johnson was hard as nails and Jeannette was forced to hold to avoid punishment." San Francisco Examiner July 12 1912.
Before the Johnson v Flynn title fight a telegram was read out in the ring it was from Jeannette offering to fight Johnson for $20,000. Johnson received another telegram from the McMahon Brothers who promoted in NY.
They offered Johnson $20,000 for a Johnson defence against Jeannette in NY . This was July 4th 1912.
Billy Gibson offered Johnson $25,000 to defend against Jeannette over 10 rds.Johnson replied he wanted his $30,000 price,saying," I don't care who you name to fight me the price will be the same for my services ,or I wont appear."
Around this time there was a tentative offer from Victor Breyer for Johnson to defend against Jeannette inParis for $30,000 the fly in the ointment as far as Johnson was concerned was that he was now scaling around 250lbs and Breyer wanted the fight to be over 30rds,which took some of the shine off it for Johnson. Breyer also required Johnson to put up a $10,000 guarantee .

Adam Pollack puts the Johnson V Jeannette series at 7 fights,
1905.w 2-4 kds',Ldsq,w6 4kd',1906 wd 3 w`15,w10 1kd.

Billy Gibson attempted to get the NY ban on Johnson lifted,but the New York Americn affirmed that the NY Commission would not let him box there.New York American July8 1912
McIntosh now offered Johnson $20,000 to fight McVey and $20,000 to fight Langford $20,000 short of his asking price and he would have to travel to Australia to defend his title.
At this time promoters were pushing for an Al Palzer fight believing that it would be a better draw. The NY Commission made it clear that no white black contest woul be permitted there,[they already had a maximum of 10 rounds for boxing matches].
On July 28 Gibson the manager of MSG ,with the blessing of McKetrick offered Johnson $20,000 for a 10 round title defence Gibson thought that he could persuade the NY Commission to relax their ban on Johnson.Johnson replied $30,000 or I retire.
Johnson "You can make the story of my retirement as strong as you like,I have a paying business here[ his Cafe De Champion],and I'm going to stick to it .There are no white hopes worthy of attention .I have beaten Jeannette so many times that I've lost track of the number.Langford does not want to fight me,despite his repeated challenges.His challenges are merely to attract attention to his own person".
Johnson justified his asking fee of $30,000 a defence by saying he had to take the short end,[ $5000] against Burns whilst Burns got $30,000 and that was 4 years earlier. Johnson said he and Jeannette would draw at least $60,000 in MSG ." I'm certainly worth 50% of that amount.Jeannette could not draw $10,000 with anyone else.There is no other match in the world that would draw as much in NY City.Jeannette ought to be satisfied with getting as much out of the match as I received when I fought for the title.That would leave the club a handsome profit for its trouble.Why should I take one third of the gate ,which is what $20,000 represents?"
San Francisco Call July28 1912.

August 14 1912 ,Johnson signed to fight Jeannette over 10rds at the St Nicholas Club in NYC the bout to take place on Sep25 1912.Promoters the McMahon Bros. Johnson guaranteed,$25,000 regardless of gate receipts, if the receipts totalled $60,000 Johnson would receive $30,000 plus an additional 25% of any amounts exceeding $60,000 Johnson would also receive a one half interest in the fight films which could be shown in NY and overseas." Johnson liked the contract because he expected to make more than $30,000. Johnson said he was weighing242lbs but only needed to lose 12 pounds to get down to230 for a ten round bout, [all that NY allowed].
" I whipped that fellow 3 times and can do it every day just for fun.The only time he ever did make a showing with me I was a bit under wraps,you know I had a hard time getting matches in those days."
The Salt Lake Tribune said that ,"Johnson's assertion that he was under wrap was the truth.Under wraps mean that he had agreed to carry his foe in order to get his opponent to fight."Aug 15 1912.

Johnson placed $5000 forfeit money in the hands of Al Tearney demanding that the McMahon forfeit be given to him if they could not bring off the match. The belief that the NYC was only really opposed to a Black v White contest proved to be ill founded , on Aug22 the NYSAC refused to allow the match with the commissioners threatening to revoke the licence of any club that held the bout.
The McMahon's made a statement explaining why they were no longer prepared to promote the fight.

"The commissioners dont want Johnson to appear in a match in New York City.Aug22 1912 The New York Age, The New York Daily Times and The New York World.
The sports writer of the New York World a Johnson hater congratulated the Commission for its decision and said," keeping Johnson out would greatly benefit the sport of boxing.The trouble is that whenever Johnson appears race rancour develops.It's better to keep Johnson out in Chicago ,where they seem to love him . " The writers name Robert Edgren!

"Johnson attempted to spar 3 rounds at a ball park to make a charitable donation to a local hospital.However a policeman carrying orders from the Police Chief said ,"no boxing.Johnson pointed out," this is for charity Boss" The reply," no sparring."
" On Sep12 163.5lbs Jeff Clark clearly won the unofficial 6rd decision against 197.5lbs Jeannette.
Johnson said McIntosh's latest offer of $50,000 which included expenses for 2 fights in Australia did not look good enough to him, plus McIntosh had yet to post a forfeit.
On Sep 9 195lbs Joe Jeannette won a 7th rd dsq over 207.5lbs Tony Ross. The Freeman Sep 14 1912.
"On Oct 12 1912 Johnson announced that he had accepted $55,000 to fight Langford and McVey in Australia for McIntosh. Johnson was to receive $5000 training exes, [$60,000 total], plus 5 round trip tickets,forfeits of $10,000 to be posted by both parties.The Freeman Oct19 1912.The Missoulian Oct 13 1912."
October 18th 1912. Johnson was arrested for abduction and released on $800 bail and subsequently arraigned ."As a result of the legal troubles McIntosh called off Johnson's fights with McVey and Langford."
McIntosh made the following statement."The Australian sporting public were disgusted by Johnson's relations with the Cameron girl.The allegations have so angered the Ausrtralian sporting public as to make Johnson a doubtful attraction even though he was the world champion. Hence the matches were no longer desirable."
I've had to severely edit this to get it posted.
But I think this about covers it!

 

Read my last post and educate yourself on the subject, you could certainly do with it!

 

Thank you for that post, very informative. This is the way to post w/o arguing here it is make of it what you will. Let people make up there own minds.

 

Didnt need this post, you just shoulda posted without unnecessary commentary. A good post is an informative post as it should be.

 

I've no interest in trying to influence what anyone here thinks, to be brutally candid I couldn't care less.
I do like the truth to be heard however.

 

It was a response to your sarcasm about me making a double post.Anyone reading my content can plainly see I haven't come to grips with the new format. When I was at school we had inkwells!
I made a post that was 2000 words long and not knowing how to make it two pages I pruned a lot of it including the contemporary experts opinions that over 10rds ,though he had slowed bit, Johnson in 1912 was still a hot favourite to beat Jeannette.
The French offer for $30,000 was over 30rds and did not include any training or travel expenses .Johnson was never going to go for that .He got $31,500 for beating up Flynn in the States!

 

I would love to go over this with you but I am off to Mexico, to look at a new fighter I am being offered Adrian Estrella, from Monterrey, Mx, once world rated but ran into a bomb that laid him out flat. And I definitely wont take my laptop there. But I'll be back in a few days to continue the sad saga of mickey Vee continuing defense of Jack "Clutch n Grab" Johnson. Dont worry I will answer each and every point you made when I come back
Ta ta

 

Absolutely no need ,you asked for details I provided them as I always do, consider this ended.

 

Im sure we are all waiting with bated breath for you to come back and worship at joe jeanettes feet before us...

 

Like you worship at the temple of Greb, I really was waiting "with bated breath", for your cowardly return and you never came back. A great pysstorian as yourself cant find articles with Jennette's weight, haha