Jack Johnson v Ketchel was a "scripted" fight made for film?

No. Not a chance.
I just watched that fight two days ago and the old canard about it being a fix is just unadulterated bull****.
Although there is a point on the film where Johnson clearly pulls Ketchel up after knocking him down (presumably to toy with him) Ketchel was clearly trying to win from the outset and his knockdown of Johnson was not a double-cross. (And it would be would be very strange if it were, considering Johnson had already knocked him down twice.)
Say it was a fluke if you like, but I see no way you could plausibly argue that it was a double-cross unless you have very strong documentary evidence of an agreement beforehand.

 

I guess Ketchel's teeth were fake

 

I think they had an agreement until Ketchel went for it then we saw what happened. Didnt look like the real deal until the KO to me

 

The deal was made between Ketchel's manager and Johnson.Stanley is believed to not have been party to it. Willus Britt, Stan's manager asked Johnson to," take it easy".knowing Ketchel had no chance in a square fight.
Johnson was amenable ,he was a lazy ****er at the best of times and always content to do just enough to win ,plus the longer fight would mean more revenue from the movie rights.Jack gave Stan enough to keep him honest and twice held him up when he was wobbly. Ketchel wasn't in the fight,the KD looks very iffy to me Johnson seems to be falling before the punch lands.GunBoat Smith, Johnson's sparring partner for the fight said Johnson pulled a fake knockdown . Kosher or not, Johnson ended matters pretty convincingly once he was upright again!

 

I think Bert Sugar said Johnson carried him for a few rounds as back then longer fights would sell more when being shown around the country.

 

He's going down before the punch lands.... I'm not sure how that, coupled with Johnson literally carrying him and holding him up isn't proof the fight had some "script" to it. Even if it's Johnson own script in his head, it certainly wasn't the script of... let me fight the best I can.

 

Exactly. Johnson does the same thing to Burns, and Flynn on film. He's toying with them when he can, doesn't mean those fights are fixed.

The fake part of this fight starts and ends with the promotions. They put Ketchel in Cowboy boots to make him look taller for the photo. His listed weight of 170 looks way too high, I've read 155 pounds.

The interesting part of this fight is what Ketchel did when he landed. He marked Johnson up visibly despite landing few punches, and hurt and floored him in the final round of the fight, only to be knocked out in the same round. Johnson is on quote saying he can't recall his jaw being so sore, and the primary press on hand for the fight said Johnson was dazed after he won.

 

Johnson did not grab either Flynn or Burns ,steady them and set them back on their feet.He did that twice to Ketchel.
On one occasion saying, "where you going Stanley,you and me ain't finished yet"
Ketchel,Burns, and Flynn did not win a single round against Johnson.
Johnson ko'd Ketchel as soon as he was upright, he can be seen lounging on the ropes surveying the results of his right hand punch as Ketchel is sprawled unconscious for 12 minutes according to contemporary fight reports.
With Johnson agreeing to take it easy in this fight he was hardly likely to say afterwards," Stan never hurt me or even got my attention,I went down as soon as I saw him launch that right swing" was he?
Johnson predicted a ko win before the 15th round.

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Nah, he hit and held Burns and taunted him. Johnson was clearly having some fun with Flynn. It was the same thing with Ketchel. None of these were " fixed fights ", rather it was Johnson being a real jerk when he was in there vs shorter and lighter opponents.

^^^ WRONG and fake news.

We have been over this before. Sigh. Johnson said to the press his jaw was never so sore and Ketchel can hit. Also, as reported primary sources say Johnson was dazed when the fight ended. The punch landed near the back of his head. Johnson was off balance, falling over Ketches while delivering the finishing shots, and holding on the ropes during the count, which is something buzzed fighters do.


A report from the New York Times - Oct, 17 - 1909 gives the account -

Round One - " The champion scored almost immediately with a HARD left"

Round Two - "In a clinch Ketchel uppercut HARD to the jaw with his left, this angered the champion."....Ketchel's face showed grim determination as he took his corner"

Round Four - Ketchel missed a TERRIFIC right...it was a close shave...and missed him barely an inch"

Round Five - "Johnson then sent Ketchel's head back with two straight lefts to the nose"

Round Six - " Ketchel was met with two lefts that started the blood flowing..."

Round Seven - "Ketchel used the...shoulder as a mat with which to stop the flowing blood from his nostrils"
"Ketchel swung his left with TERRIFIC force and caught the champion solidly on the jaw, raising a big lump that was perceptible to the spectators."

Round Eight - "Ketchel worked in a HARD right uppercut to the jaw"...."Ketchel missed a TERRIFIC right-swing and almost went through the ropes from the force of his effort"

Round Ten - "...Johnson getting Ketchel against the ropes, sent a right wallop to the stomach and Ketchel winced..."

Round Eleven - "Ketchel's face was badly battered..."

Sure, sure. Ketchel agreed to this type of damage on a " fix ", and so did Johnson. NOT

Read the fight report, which says Johnson was dazed from the knockdown, and Johnson himself saying his jaw was never so sore.

https://timesmachine.nytimes.com/timesmachine/1909/10/17/101040198.pdf

 

Ketchel agreed to nothing, he was trying his best, I've already stated the agreement was between Britt and Johnson.
I repeat, neither Ketchel,Burns or Flynn won a round against Johnson.

 

Ah, that would make a lot more sense.

 

And your wrong. Burns won at least a round vs Johnson. The third round for example.

Ketchel likely won round seven.

I'd have to see Flynn vs Johnson, but many in attendance felt that Johnson was slowing down at the time of the DQ, while Flynn was fresh.

You can also read about Johnson hitting on the break in round 8, landing a left and a right to face. As I've told you before he has his share of fouls

 

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No, I'm right, I have the round by round reports of these fights.
The referee of the Flynn v Johnson fights stated Johnson totally dominated Flynn and it was his considered opinion that Flynn deliberately fouled out to save himself from being knocked out.
Johnson hitting on the break against who?
Flynn? Flynn was butting Johnson all night he even kicked him in the shins! He can be seen jumping off the ground to butt Johnson like some demented billy goat while Johnson laughs at him !

If you are referring to the Burns fight it was mutually agreed that both men would fight their way out of clinches.
This by the way, was Burns suggestion, he reasoned he was the superior infighter.He later stated how much he regretted it because he hadnt realised how strong Johnson was.
Hitting in the clinches was also agreed in the Ketchel fight, read the fight reports! Johnson won the 7th round as he did all the others and at one point had Ketchel reeling as for the first time he began to use his right uppercut .
All this information is easily available,for someone so obsessed with Johnson I wonder you don't do some research on these and other of his fights? No matter how strong your phobic hatred of Johnson is and how much it warps your judgement, you can't get around these facts, they are public record.

 

Are we going to start with the... Flynn was on his way to a KO against Johnson if the fight wasn't stopped?