Jack Johnson v Ketchel was a "scripted" fight made for film?

I just watched that fight too, and damn, Flynn's headbutting was shameless.

 

Burns several times referred to Johnson as a yellow hyena and a ****** with a yellow streak.He threw an inkwell at him in promoter McIntosh's office then picked up a chair and threatened him with it whilst using obscene language in front of one of Johnson's friend's little daughter,he took all the money for the fight $30,000 leaving Johnson£3,000 out of which he had to pay his travelling expenses to Australia.For this Johnson carried him for a few rounds before getting down to serious business.This is Johnson being a jerk in your opinion?
Flynn fouled Johnson incessantly throughout the fight leaping off the canvas to head butt him and kicking him in the shin. He called him a ****** both before the fight and during it . Johnson toying with him and laughing at him is him being a jerk? Do you know ,I think you're a bit unbalanced!Lol

 

That was the referee's opinion which he stated in articles in the next days newspapers.
Maybe he was best placed to form that opinion?

 

No, you are WRONG again. As usual you're going to have to move your initial statement backward and go off tangent. Burns won round three, perhaps another. I showed you where Johnson fouled Ketchel, hitting him on the break ( Which is not hitting in the clinches ) , and we have already seen Seyna13, who's very well researched give primary reports to Flynn Vs Johnson!

Ketchel wasn't very skilled, but he did embarrass Johnson in his absolute prime, marking him up early with what little that landed and flooring / hurting him late according to Johnson and the press at hand.

Why can't you learn?

 

Johnson did not foul Ketchel I have the fight report! Neither did he win the 7th rd as you stated, he was reeling around with his nose pouring blood in that round.

Round 3.

Burns v Johnson.
Burns rushed in at once,and landed a left on the neck.Johnson missed a left jab and Tomy ducked.
The crowd cheered , "good boy Tommy!"They also cheered any time Tommy made contact.
Burns landed two punches to the stomach and a left and right in a clinch.
Burns worked but his blows lacked power,Johnson sneered ,"cahm ahn." burns landed a right to the ribs but Johnson simply grinned like a chimpanzee showing his gold teeth which irritated Burns.
Johnson landed a right to the head.Burns a right to the neck and in a clinch Johnson handled him like a baby.Johnson showed his enormous strength moving freely in Burns grasp.The grip of the white man was no more than the pressure of an elastic band would be to the arm of an athlete.Johnson simply changed his position at will and punished him every time he moved.
In a clinch Johnson knocked Burns about with right uppercuts and a hard left to the ribs. Burns got clear and landed a light left to the mouth but Johnson landed a left to the chest in return.Burns landed a right and left to the stomach but there was no power in them ,and Johnson grinned at him. Johnson landed left and right swings to either side of Burns body which must have hurt him.Bunrs landed three punches at long range but there was nothing in them.
At the bell Johnson drove a heavy right to the ribs that would have hurt any man. It was Johnson's round.
"The Morning Herald " said," this was the only round that Burns made any kind of showing but that it cannot be denied even then, in this the third round ,Johnson was ahead on points."

" The Referee "stated "There were several solid punches in this round and the brave white skinned fighter received much more than his fair share of them"
"The Bulletin"Johnson defended his stomach and avoided uppercuts with the greatest.A more one-sided it would be impossible to imagine." three contemporary reports of the round by ringside papers.

Let's read your's giving the round to Burns and any others you say he won!Lol.

 

No I'm saying.. Mendoza has claimed that Flynn was going to KO Johnson because Johnson was starting to tire prior to the DQ.

 

Below is a video of Johnson-Flynn II. Fight stopped in the 7th so as to "avoid Flynn taking more
punishment". BS stoppage IMO but the ref had been warning Flynn about his flagrant headbutts.
The fight was scheduled without a round limit. Fight to the finish!

This content is protected

 

What was BS about the stoppage?

 

I thought that must be it, you are far too intelligent for the other point of view!

 

The fight was scheduled to go forty-five rounds, but in the ninth Capt. Fornoff of the state force, personal representative at the ringside of Governor McDonald, declared that it was no longer a boxing contest; that it was a brutal exhibition, and that Flynn's foul tactics made its continuance impossible. He jumped into the ring with his deputies and drove the fighters and officials who followed him to the corners. Referee Ed W. Smith then announced that Johnson had won and the fight was over.
Flynn displayed no ability throughout the fight. He was cut about the face until blood ran down his breast in a stream. He was utterly helpless from the first round on and by the sixth was deliberately trying to butt the champion's chin with his head. Time after time, as Johnson held him powerless in the clinches, Flynn jerked his head upward.
Smith warned him repeatedly, but it did no good. In the seventh he began leaping upward every time he could work his head under Johnson's chin. Flynn's feet were both off the floor time and again with the energy he put into his bounds. Sometimes he seemed to leap two feet into the air in frantic plunges at the elusive jaw above him.
Referee Smith forced Flynn back toward his corner half a dozen times. "Stop that butting," he would say, shaking his finger in Flynn's face. "Stop it or I will disqualify you."
"The — Negro's holding me," Flynn roared back. "He's holding me all the time. He's holding me like this," and he offered to illustrate on the referee. Smith evaded the blood smeared arms held toward him and waved the men together again.
In the next clinch—it was in the eighth round—Flynn flung himself upward again. Smith jumped between them and warned him once more. "Next time you do it I'll disqualify you," he shouted at Flynn, but changed his mind, for it happened again and again in that round and repeatedly in the ninth before the police took a hand.
Through it all the champion was grinning. He evaded Flynn's attack with the utmost ease, whether the Pueblo man led with his hands or with his head. Only once in the rounds did he show any wish to end the fight, and yet ringside opinion was unanimous that he could have put Flynn out at any time he happened to fancy, whether in the first or the ninth round.
Another report of the fight below.This one states Johnson could have ended it when he chose.
https://chroniclingamerica.loc.gov/lccn/sn85066387/1912-07-05/ed-1/seq-12/

 

It was only 9 rounds before the DQ in a scheduled 45 round fight, which took place in July in the desert.

People at ringside felt Johnson was slowing down at the time of the DQ and Flynn was not. That is a fact. The question is not who was more skilled, that's Johnson easily, rather if they went 30 rounds or more, who wilts first.

Seyna13, who researched this fight gave excellent information and testimonials.


W.W. Naughton

That Johnson had scored the most punches and had brought the most blood was something that could not be denied, but to say he looked a winner at the time of the interference is a different matter. It was the opinion of the majority of the spectators that if Flynn could have kept his temper and fought cleanly he could have worn Johnson down.


Sandy Griswold

Jack Johnson is a great fighter, but luckier than he is great. After being battered in the fiercest and most merciless style for nine rounds this afternoon, he was awarded a victory over Jim Flynn simply because Referee Ed Smith lacked the perspicuity to distinguish between the manner and mode of fouling both men adopted early in the blood fray. He considered the offending of the awful white demon from Pueblo the most flagrant, and for this reason gave the fight to the black, but not on account of his fouling, but because the men had agreed that he should give the man whom he thought had the better of it on the occasion of any interference by the officers of the law or otherwise.

This occurred after one minute and ten seconds in the ninth round, when both men were swathed in gore and fighting like raging beasts in an inferno.

Yet one was as guilty as the other, and as far as the breaking of the Queensberry code was concerned, both were equally culpable. The trouble was Flynn's offense was both the most palpable and the most damaging, as he had been shaded in a majority of the rounds and had shed the most of life's red fluid. Mr. Smith considered his course justifiable in awarding the verdict to Johnson when Captain Fornoff of the mounted rangers, with several of his wild and wooly men, with hands on their big guns, leaped up over the press chairs and into the arena and called a halt.

My! Oh, my! What a glorious intervention that was to Jack Johnson. What a marvelous dispensation of providence in the very nick of time! With his massive black jaw golterous and awry from the terrific overhand left crashes Flynn had landed on it, with his mouth exuding clots of thick and agglutinative blood and his stomach hammered back flat against his vertebrae, Edward Smith failed to see that he was a rumbling shell of his former manhood and in a few more rounds would have been beaten stiff. But Flynn, with his split and fractured nose, his face a mask of smeary gore and his whole torso and upper limbs swathed as in a scarlet sweater, his eyes, wild, fierce and terrible, with the ravages of hatred, vindictiveness and victory but his form upright, rigorous and replete with savage life and earnestness, was the beaten man and according to the compact entered into before the fight, was entitled to all the glory of being denominated as the victorious winner.

While it was undoubtedly a mistake of Smith's it was certainly as he and many others saw it, but a greater mistake of Flynn's. With absolute victory within his grasp, he, in his hatred and passion, tossed it away. There was no call for his repeated butting the negro under the chin, he was winning with most astounding rapidity as it was, and he could well afford to have withstood the short-sightedness of the referee, until, in a round or two more, he would have had Jack Johnson, the black champion of the world, either unconscious or groveling at his feet.


T.S. Andrews

These yells had no effect on Johnson. The black even pushed out his stomach at times for Flynn to hit at, just to show the white what little chance he had when Johnson wanted to block him. Yet Flynn did hurt Johnson at times and in a long fight would have had a splendid chance.


Flynn made the same mistake that Tommy Burns did in Australia. He tried to carry the fight to Johnson and rough it--just what the colored man wanted. Flynn had one chance and that was to act on the defensive and carry the fight along fifteen or twenty rounds to learn whether Jack could stand the pace.


It was a case of the matador toying with the bull, for Johnson certainly toyed with Flynn. There is no denying that Flynn was as strong as a young bull and full of fight, but that is all the more reason why he should have reserved his strength and played to wear down the big fellow.


Otto Floto

There is just a slight chance that destiny knocked at the door of Jim Flynn yesterday afternoon and received a cruel blow that swept away all the chances Jim Flynn will ever have of becoming the world's heavyweight champion. Flynn's foul tactics and over officiousness on the part of Captain Fornoff spoiled what probably would have given the white man an excellent opportunity to wear the crown of supremacy in the realm of fistiana.

Both Johnson and Flynn violated the rules on the Queensberry code. Flynn probably to a greater extent than Johnson. To have disqualified one would have been an injustice unless the other also received the same deal. Johnson continually held and hit his opponent. Flynn made use of his "bean" in a fashion that left no doubt of his intentions.

When the battle was stopped both men were strong and able to continue for some rounds further. Neither had been punished to any great extent. The cut on Flynn's nose bled profusely, but outside of that he was absolutely uninjured.

Probably the inexperience of Captain Fornoff in such matters was responsible for his actions. The blood may have frightened him to a degree quite unnecessary to call for the stopping of the battle. Mind, I don't want to be understood as saying that Flynn would have beaten Johnson, but his chances to score brackets were of the best at the time the fight was stopped. Johnson is still a great champion. He is cunning and shrewd and manages to cover up his transgressions of the rules in a manner that is surprising. But he is not the Jack Johnson of two years ago. He is not the formidable fighting machine that set the world wondering at Reno.


John I. Day

For his three months of training, all Jim Flynn has to show is a badly battered face surrounding a broken nose. He did not even make a friend by the showing he gave today. Still, there were some, and among them such a good judge of fights and fighters as Spider Kelly, who declared that had the fight been allowed to go along to a more natural ending instead of being murdered so early, the "white hope" might finally have worn the worried negro to the canvas.

It is true that Johnson showed signs of punishment and long before the wind-up the smile had been abandoned. Though battered, cut and bloody, the white man was at all times willing, and undoubtedly he did land some telling blows in the midriffs of the champion. Never before has Johnson been known to complain to the referee that he was getting the worst of the milling. Yet in the sixth, seventh and eighth rounds he had complaints to make.


Johnson only made $21,000 for this fight, which was lightly attended. He sure as heck could have made more money vs Langford, Jeannette, McVey, or Gun Boat Smith in 1912.

 

Mcvey,

Cut the crap. In the book
Tommy Burns: Canada's Unknown World Heavyweight Champion
by Dan McCaffery it clearly states Burns won round three.

It also says those at ringside felt Burns was yellow and sick, and point to Burns suffering from a jaundice, which Kevin Smith the chief historian on early black fighters agrees with.

 

I never said this! It could have happened, we'll never know. I did list the testimonials of the people who were there for the fight. Read them.

 

Nope the fight did not draw so Curley went into his own pocket and made up the difference Johnson received $31,000 my source is Adam Pollack's biography which goes into extensive detail about it.The idea that Johnson did not get his full purse came from the Tacoma Times the morning before the fight.
here it is.
https://chroniclingamerica.loc.gov/lccn/sn88085187/1912-07-04/ed-1/seq-2/
You are just going by Box rec because you haven't any primary sources ,unlike myself! Box rec is useful but not definitive!lol

 

It was my pleasure to give this piece of rubbish an absolutely terrible review.McCaffery 5 years before he wrote this **** didn't even know Burns was Canadian or a boxer McCaffery himself is Canadian !
Among the litany of bull**** lies and inaccuracies in this crap are the statements that Burns defended against
1.A Red Indian
2 . .A South African
3. A Jew
4.That Burns broke Johnson's ribs. Johnson went for a swim after the fight then on to a victory party.
The fact that you have to resort to this sewage tells us all we need to know! Burns gave public workouts up until 2 days before the fight.
After his defeat he stated to the Aussie press that he had been in the best condition of his life ,this is verified in a quoted interview in Pollack's book. You need to seek some treatment you're deranged!
Kevin Smith came on this site and berated you for using his name to shore up your lies. Just like when you used Ted Spoon's name saying he said he had seen a particular fight .I talked with him and he totally denied ever saying such and gave me permission to rebutt your lies.